My stance on Fat Shaming
June 10, 2013A lot has been said about the fat girl who posed with the slim built guy in protest of Abercrobie&Fitch.
I’m going to keep this short.
No one should be made to feel horrible or ashamed for how they look. No one. I don’t shame anyone for being fat in and of itself.
I have a problem with hypocrites tho, those who pretend to take a stand of sorts, which is standing for inequality and doing the easy thing.. not the hard thing.
No one can claim to deign what is and isn’t attractive to another human being. This is the lesson of the manosphere. Attraction just is. You being angry because a guy doesn’t find you sexually appealing because you are fat is no different than you not being attracted to the guy who lives in his moms basement at the age of 35 while playing WoW on Xbox and Dungeons and Dragons on the weekend.
I am saying this because i have never gone out of my way to intentionally harm someone else’s esteem, especially those who know their esteem is already low. It’s like kicking lame horse.
There was a time when i was kicked. For both being fat, and for being the beta unattractive loser unworthy of a relationship.
So i get it.
I also keep stressing i know many people in real life, who are ‘big’.. who are the nicest people you would meet. Perhaps humility and humble come from adversity, and never having had the silver spoon in the mouth. Just a theory.
But..
Here’s my problem with the whole Militant Baker protest.
She decided to do a photoshoot with a svelte, handsome and quite possibly gay (not that there’s anything wrong with that) model.. who was most likely paid for his services. While it may be possible he actually found her attractive, the chances are slim (pardon the pun) and if it were the case, we could attribute it to a fetish, not a suppression human nature or change in conscious thinking. Her choice to do the shoot with Mr. Hunky works against her whole body shaming argument, or that fat actually is beautiful. If that were the case, she should have done the shoot with an equally fat man to recognize body shaming equally is wrong. Instead, she made it only about body shaming women and accepting fat only if you are a fat woman…
If the roles were reversed and she had a Victoria Secret model in sexual poses with the equivalent of Fat Bastard, how many of her readers would you think would be throwing up in disgust, saying shit like ‘well.. there’s a guy with money’, or completely lampooning the shoot.
See, this was never about body shaming. This was about accepting fat women as sexually desirable. This was about creating and fashioning a reality in which fat women are supposed to be encouraged that they are to be desired by the tall dark and handsomes of the world.. and not just about not shaming fat people.
But of all my problems.. the one i find the most disturbing is crystallized by one of her own readers comments:
It’s that she has created a fucking delusion in other women.. a delusion that those who are unwilling to put in the time and effort to maintain a healthy weight or lifestyle, those who do not want to be shamed or ridiculed for their lack of effort or work ethic, those who want to be accepted solely on the basis of who they are and not what they look like… CAN TURN AROUND and OBJECTIFY, AND FEEL ENTITLED TO ‘nailing’ guys ONE BILLION SMV points out of their league.
Polly_E is the end result of this continual mass delusion. And it will only get worse as the masses are propagandized to and indoctrinated into the belief that the ‘new average’ size for women is in fact the NEW normal.. without any thought to stop and think ‘well wait a second.. we only shifted the goal posts’
Being fat IS NOT normal. In nature it is ABNORMAL. Does this make you a horrible person? No. Does this make you undeserving of respect, decency and human dignity? No. Does it make you a hot goddess deserving of nailing fit, hot guys who work hard to achieve their body type and show impulse control with what goes into their mouths?
No. You are not entitled to dick. You are not entitled to a relationship. Stop being a NiceGirl(tm)
I am NOT making fun of these people because they are fat. I am making fun of the delusion that they should expect so much when they invest so little, especially in themselves. No one would think twice about telling some dude who dressed, acted and behaved like an omega that he is sooooo hawt hawt hawt, so incredibly irresistible, a total James Dean or James Bond, and how he is just so courageous to be posing with a Victoria Secret model he payed to have with her in the shoot.. and how absolutely fucking hawt they look together.. her slender legs wrapped around his 300lb girth and I ❤ Star Trek t-shirt while wearing his bifocals.
That’s not desire in his eyes, that’s concentration on his acting skills to collect a paycheck. Man’s gotta eat right?
Follow the comments on militant bakers blog post and you will see precisely this kind of herd mentality where they all pat each other on the back and laud her for her ‘courage’. You know what would have been really courageous? Modeling with an equally fat man next to her. Then her movement would have some merit. Otherwise, i view it as simply a stunt of the feminine imperative to assuage the feelings of large women without the equal caring to eliminating body shaming against men.
And i will probably be called some loser with a tiny dick because i’ve been against this protest from day one.
Hehe.
Also related:
Thin Privilege – where body shaming is ok, if you are a fat woman making fun of a thin woman and calling her a bag of bones or a twig or a stick or a skeleton.. because she happens to have the golden ratio.
*On a side note.. let me also add, i wonder how ‘happy’ she really is, knowing she can only get some handsome guy to pose with her because he was paid to be there. (or at the very least, done as a favor to the photographer) must be a subtle wake up call for women to stop being callous retards by saying “Well if a guy wants sex, why doesn’t he just go out and pay for it?”.. because i will get very adept at saying shit like ‘Well if fat girls want relationships.. why don’t they just rent?’ Sure the guy doesn’t actually care about you and disappears as soon as the money dries up but hey..
The difference between him smiling and voluntarily wanting to be there with you vs. him smiling because you paid him to hang around you long enough for the photoshoot to end.
You’re good enough.. for the hour you paid him for.
Do you get it now?
M3 
This is the fat WOMEN acceptance movement.
Women are fond of saying that men aren’t entitled to sex. Believe me, we get that. We’re not entitled to sex, or attention, or a woman, or commitment, or a girlfriend, or a wife, or a job, or much of anything.
By the same token, women aren’t entitled either. You’re not entitled to commitment. You’re not entitled to Mr. Perfect, Mr. Great, or even Mr. Below Average. You’re not entitled to a husband, or attention, or validation, or approval.
[…] whoism3.wordpress.com […]
Lord, as someone who’s done photography, been at photoshoots, and seen good photography with good models….
There’s no chemistry between the two people in those shots. None at all. They’re both paid and they know it. The only shots that look somewhat…. appealing? for women? is when the man is not making eye contact with her or with the camera. He remains tall, dark, handsome, and mysterious while she controls all the power – because some of these shots it’s very clearly set up where she’s having the power to turn him down.
Contrast that to ones where they have eye contact or are about to kiss. They’re dead. They have no life. Even the ones where one of them is smiling you can tell it’s an almost awkward laughter at the shoot, not an honest, “I’m a cute smiling couple” thing.
@ Deti
I honestly hadn’t thought of literally saying, “If I’m not entitled to sex, attention, or a woman; what makes you entitled to my attraction?” Then I’d probably make a joke about how she’s trying to rape my mind and attraction without my consent.
Also, thanks for the link. Forgot about that article, it’d been awhile.
It’s a common theme among grrl-power feminists that all women–no matter how they look–deserve whatever they want in life simply because they exist. And amazingly enough, what they ‘deserve’ turns out to be young hot guys pawing all over them.
Meanwhile, back in reality… If you’re unattractive, you face social consequences. It doesn’t make you less of a human being, but it sure as heck doesn’t entitle you to a relationship (or even a hookup) that’s out of your league, no matter how many “U Go Girls” are chanting in the background.
Men have standards too, ladies… and no matter how intolerable you find that, it’s not going to change on your say-so.
Those pictures of her with a male model fake-doting on her gross me out more than pictures of just her jabba-the-hutt self pounding down some take-out from Mos Eisley would.
Yeah Polly’s comment was pretty distasteful and inappropriate. I agree that her statement was objectifying…of them both actually, given the context of the this particular photoshoot, which is about not objectifying (in part). Not a good time to yell out, “I hope you nailed it after the photoshoot.”
I currently have an acquaintance who just separated from her husband and is on POF looking for dates. She puts the pictured lady to SHAME by a couple hundred pounds, with big old cellulite arms. But stupid men keep dating her. Uggh. No, I would not shame somebody that fat either, but I would shame men for dating her. What pathetic man would do something like that? Have no shame? Have you no decency?? On second thought, never mind. Keep it up. Whatever floats your [blech!!!] boat…
“I am NOT making fun of these people because they are fat. I am making fun of the delusion that they should expect so much when they invest so little, especially in themselves. ”
This is the meat of the matter right here. These types want So badly for the objects of their desire to lower their standards so they have a chance. Why don’t these people try to Be More than they currently are, try to Improve themselves?
This dovetails with another seriously negative side of our society; The Idea that you don’t need to better yourself, that Society should try to make your lot in life more comfortable so the pain you feel in not bettering yourself is reduced to a dull ache that you can ignore (almost indefinitely). These people Know, deep down, that they are Not in a healthy state, and instead of listening to that pain in their bodies and minds (teleological, you might say?) they just want society to drown out that signal that they need to change something. I don’t care if the obesity is from over-eating crap foods, a medical condition, or stress- induced; it’s a Sign that something Is Wrong, and they Need to change it. The Crap foods will eventually Kill them, the medical condition will eventually kill them, the Stress will eventually kill them. If they had a sense of personal responsibility, they would realize this and remedy whatever situation is slowly killing them (unless they are nihilists, then they probably don’t care).
Of course, this woman, in her quest to make it look like men should lower their standards (her secondary objective, no doubt), would likely still tell some guy that “wasn’t up” to her standards to fuck off.
BDubs
“That’s not desire in his eyes, that’s concentration on his acting skills to collect a paycheck. Man’s gotta eat right?”
Right, but with her around there won’t be any food left for him.
I looked at her page. Just an observation.
If she’s so proud of her body then why did she cover herself in tats? I’ve always, perhaps wrongly, assumed that women who did that in the way that she did, do it because they actually hate themselves or are trying to project that “they don’t care and they’re happy in their own skin” kind of BS when they’re really miserable.
You are 100% correct , especially the part about where she knows she’s unattractive because she’s fat. That’s why she’s screaming “Accept me!, accept me! – I don’t want to change my lifestyle and slothy/sloveny ways but I want you to find me attractive anyway.” It’s pathetic. Either be fat and just accept this is your lot in life. No one else cares – only YOU do. If you don’t want to accept it, then get off your fat behind and CHANGE it. Those are the only two options. Sorry, cupcake.
Reblogged this on Errant Buckeye and commented:
Lauded ‘Sphere blogger M3 lays it down here. In another characteristically thoughtful yet hard-driving post, he notes that the anti-Fat Shaming movement has more to do with making fat women socially acceptable than it does with promoting fatness. He focuses on the “Attractive and Fat” photos made by The Militant Baker (no link from me) and how she posed her portly next to a slim and attractive young man. See the article for more.
Two side notes:
What’s with the tattoos? They’re all
He should have been fat! Where’s the male version of this? I’d love to see a fat man with a thin model all over him. And then pics of 2 fat people together. That would have been a work of art, as the whole protest against A&F is lame anyway. I just want to see the art.
*Two side notes: What’s with the tattoos? They’re all over her and do her no favors for boosting her attractiveness Second, she should have chosen a better outfit if she wanted to be as “Attractive and Fat” as possible, for her T-shirt accentuates her belly fat. A tasteful dress would have been more effective. Oh well.
@Emma – Absolutely. The “protest” would have been triply effective had she employed a man of similar size to herself.
Fat shaming is the job of parents. A girl who gets to be this size has a dad who doesn’t care.
I think the rest of society has a responsible to make an example of the audacious fatsos like this so the rest are more hesitant to step up. The fat people just trying to go through life can be spared because being fat is punishment in itself.
Here is the opposite of the ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-3j4-4N3Ng
To the people saying “Where’s the fat guy”: I agree, but the way I see it, is if she wanted to make a point, she should have gotten with a like-minded fat guy, and had him do a photo set with a typical A&F “Hot Chick” as a complement to her photo set. again, we have the fem-centric view of people of this mindset; My/Our struggle is the only one that matters, fuck the other side of this battle. Shit, she did this not only for selfish reasons, but likely also so she had a schlick-bank of photos to diddle to when she started feeling down about her lot in life.
[…] h/t: M3 […]
Hey, whats wrong with D&D in mom’s basement?
So let me get this straight.
If a man is deemed unattractive by the majority of women, then he’s told to man up, develop confidence, cultivate passion and drive in his life, dress better, and overall transform himself into a more attractive man. He’s told that complaining about the unfairness of it all is unattractive, makes him a whiner, and that he simply has to suck it up and improve himself, because life isn’t fair.
But if a woman is deemed unattractive and all she has to do to reduce her lack of attractiveness is not look like a sea cow?
Well, then it’s not her fault at all! Society’s oppressive beauty ideals need to be challenged, and men should just find her attractive as she is. She has absolutely no responsibility to lose any weight, but men have a responsibility to be such shallow misogynists who don’t find fat chicks attractive.
It’s no coincidence that some of the most passionate fat acceptance advocates are also staunch feminists.
“Fat acceptance” is a load of crap.
We men have to be confident, witty, passionate, persistent, assertive, outgoing, capable of leading conversations, making all of the first moves and taking all of the initiative, adept at reading female body language, etc, etc.
Women simply have to be there and look presentable. Really, that’s it.
The least they can do is put genuine effort into their appearance, and exercise some impulse control when it comes to their diet.
I know that this will sound just a tad bit heartless, but I find myself agree with manosphere writer Matt Forney when he asserts that fat chicks don’t deserve to be loved. We men have to pass all kinds of trials in order to prove ourselves worthy of love, if women can’t qualify themselves to men on that one front (ie. don’t be fat), then they don’t deserve male attention.
BTW, first time commenting here. I’ve long been a fan of your blog, but this is the first time I’ve really felt compelled to comment. Hopefully it’s not the last!
but men have a responsibility to *not* be such shallow misogynists
I find myself *agreeing* with manosphere writer Matt Forney
Apologies for the typos!
[…] M3 on the hypocrisy of fat acceptance. […]
you are all filthy misogynist’s…..
bow down to your superior, Ms. Marcotte…
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/02/04/post-super-bowl-misogyny-watch-mostly-calm-with-one-incident-of-assault/
oh, how I wish she would work me over Hugo Schwyzer style with a strap-on…
@ Fucktrelle
Thank you for the link.. it was all too appropriate. Feminists.. body shaming if you reject the idea of finding a fat woman sexually attractive, but Bar Rafeili with a big chunky nerd.. and look at all the little cat collectors let out a collective ‘ewwwwwwww gross, lets think of bullshit ways to call this guy a misogynist, and the advertiser as well’.
Amanda Marcotte. Kill it with Fire!
@ Bay Area Guy
I find myself agreeing with Forney on principle, altho i would not say fat people are not deserving of ‘love’. They aren’t deserving of the opportunity to choose from a deep pool of sexually attractive mates. An SMV 4 can love and SMV 4.
I can love a fat person.. but i cannot be sexually attracted to them, just as women can love their orbiters but not want to fuck them. If we want to make it more cut and dry, lets put it in the realm of ‘sexual love’… then yes, they don’t ‘deserve’ that.. they get what they can. No entitlements simply for having a vagina.
Thank you for reading, hope you enjoy your time here and thank you for delurking and participating!
Absolutely nothing at all! If i could D&D again i would.. perhaps a manosphere D&D session over skype should be arranged lol! Bring back my Dwavish Fighter Martog
@ BDobs
She did it ‘the femcentric way’ because of the nature of the beast. Women inherently want to be desired and validated. Men do to, but we don’t prance about on Instagram and do self shooters (except narcissists like me :P) to satiate that desire, we only want to be validated by being laid. Women only want to get laid by the top prize, well men have a large range from chubby to supermodel they’d lay (80/20) so women require that they get their validation simply by being told.. so their egos can be inflated, so they think they should command a high value SMV male in return. Let the vicious circle commence.
Doing a photo set with a guy would achieve nothing because most guys don’t seek validation through visual compliments and ego stroking. They just want to get laid as the highest form of validation a woman can offer.
@ laidnyc
Harsh.. but i can’t argue against it. I say if a fat person is content with their life and isn’t trying to impose on me or ‘shame’ me for not thinking of them in any sexual manner.. then i see no reason go out of my way to point at them in a crowd and laugh. They already should know about all of the life they are missing out on and no need to rub it into their face.
But if they start rubbing shit into my face (ala Militant Baker).. then game on.
@ Mina
“Either be fat and just accept this is your lot in life. No one else cares – only YOU do.”
Well said. That’s the other aspect of this protest i hate.. she decries A&F’s choice to create it’s clothes in only small sizes and starts a protest to slam the company because it won’t cater to her. What that says is that she really wants to dress in their clothes but is unable to. She has a choice, slim down to fit in, or don’t. Now if she slimmed down and then still refused to buy it, now that would make a statement, since she’s really be voting with her wallet! Instead, all she’s saying with her protest is “I’m too fat to fit into these clothes so i’ll raise a stink, but if they made clothes in XXXXXL, i’d buy it in a heartbeat! I really want these fucking clothes because it’s associated with really cool, hawt people. God damn it A&F.. make clothes in my size so i can be cool! Imma start’a protest…”
@ Day of Broken Arrows
“Right, but with her around there won’t be any food left for him.”
LOL. I left that wide open for the relay.. congrats on being the first to grab hold and run with it!
@ Leap
As a studying photographer as well, i can see that all the pics look very contrived, and for someone who claims to be proud and at peace with her size, her timid self conscious displays of SMV deficiency propped up against the male model are just screaming insecurity. I can only imagine how much re-assuring both the photog and the male model must have given her just to make it through the shoot without breaking down into “I’m so ugly” hysterics. As we both noted, the model/photog were paid, they had to do their best to make the client comfy and relaxed to get through the shoot.
In the real world, SMV is self regulating. If a male 3 hits on a female 8, we know what happens. But out in feminist lala land.. a female 2 gets encouraged that she’s worthy of a male 9, and it gets distorted/contorted by false compliments, herd group self assuaging, and sabotage by really high SMV chicks continuing to peddle lies to their heftier sisters that they too look fantastic (and they’re laughing all the way to the alpha bank).
They aren’t deserving of the opportunity to choose from a deep pool of sexually attractive mates. An SMV 4 can love and SMV 4.
That sounds about right.
I guess in other words, they do deserve love. They just forfeit the right to have any standards.
What I wonder, is if there is a higher-than-average ratio of males in the manosphere that were rpg/gamers?
I would say yes, simply by virtue of the ability to learn after failures.
You guys are slipping. You are forgetting that the “fat acceptance” movement is a part of the female cold-war amongst themselves, in their internal competition for worthy mates.
Do you seriously think that a slim girl is going to fuck a guy who she knows has had a fat girlfriend? Especially a string of fat girlfriends?
This is nothing more than another society-wide shit-test, to weed out the unfit men and push them down to the shitty end of the spectrum female-wise. Getting pissy about the hypocrisy is not the appropriate answer to pass this shit-test. Lofty disdain and amusement at all involved is.
[…] bloggers within the manosphere have already tackled the absurdity of “fat acceptance.” That fat acceptance is a predominantly female movement or […]
[…] M3~ My stance on Fat Shaming […]
It has always seemed like if a woman is fat or even just chunky, she isn’t given the time of day. But if a woman is thin with the face of a hyena or a.thin meth addicted tweaker its all good. Men don’t care what the woman looks like.as.long as she isn’t (God forbid) fat!