Products with ‘Made in Japan’ will become Collector’s Items!

December 1, 2013

Watch the video.. it’s both funny and painful.

Men have always worked to attain wealth and power in order to out compete against other males in order to be viewed upon favorably by women for the purposes of sexual access. Men get and education, work, prosper and become strong and independent to attract women for sex, create society and start families.

But what happens when women get education, prosper and become independent (taking on masculine traits) thus becoming the men of society. What do they do with their equal opportunity?

They eschew relationships or creating families early on, and have too much fun shopping for fucking shit.

And how do they view most actual men while at the height of their sexual and economic power?

With disgust, derision and apathy. They don’t have time to entertain the idea of relationships. They see no need. It’s all too bothersome and annoying and interferes with the day to day operation of their awesome fabulous lives of earning money to spend on trivial shit. It is here you see female disdain towards sex. Without external factors pressing their individual survival requiring them to hook up early to a man, they could care less about men’s need or desire for sex. This is like the OKCupid study on steroids. A true feminist utopia in every sense of the word. Free from being required to engage in a reciprocal trade of resources or having to have icky sex with Joe Average.

Of course, as Sunshine Mary found out, feminist utopia comes with a laundry list of emergency hotlines for the severely depressed and the emotionally crippled.

It creates women like the emotionally broken one that wished death upon the happy couples she sees on the street for the crime of being in a happy relationship.. one she can never experience.


Men have always desired wealth and power for the purpose of successfully mating and propagating our species. It is especially telling in Japan. Japanese men in were once renowned as robotic humans who worked preposterous hours.. just so that the family he created would prosper and thrive. Now when women are given the same option of working hard like men to earn money and become ‘salary (wo)men’.. do they behave in the same manner as those men of generations past?

No, they couldn’t be bothered. It’s all about them, and they’ll let Japan die before they give up having their fun.

And what of the men who were left behind, pushed out of the job options by the influx of women, and completely lost to any mating prospects, or simply stopped caring about working brutal hours. What of them?

When females enter the male frame and dominate it, men become weak and forced into a female frame. Once they enter that frame, they cannot instill desire or attraction of any kind. (Look at any modern day male feminist who isn’t a conniving sociopath like Hugo) They become effeminate. They realize the long uphill struggle that is required to attain sex, and seeing the folly in trying, they remain in their female frame and enjoy the simpler pursuits of life. And the men have come to realize (and accept) that they know their women would rather die than have sex with them.. so there is no motivation on this earth that would make them want to slog 80 hours a week trying to be a career salary man. There is ZERO FUCKING REWARD.

In such a society where relationships are abandoned because of too much tinkering with natural gender roles, too much freedom wrought by high tech society, and the act of sex so removed from the confines of a loving intimate act.. instead turned into a commodity to be sold under every kind of fetish and niche to be served.. and you end up with Japan. A culture ready to die.

Yes, a majority of the Japanese men are now effeminate spineless beta herbs that have the sexual appeal of a toad stool but hey, if you’re gonna blame them for being that way, you gotta blame the root cause. Women demanding to step into the masculine frame and forcibly pushing men into the feminine frame. Something had to give.. and something broke.

Where men profess love to digital girls on their Nintendo. And women who pay for orbiters to listen to their prattle…

Who pay men exorbitant amount of money in excess of what high class escorts charge here in North America, and pay eagerly and willingly to ‘alpha’ male ‘hosts’ simply to hear them bitch about their shitty days working for a fucking paycheck. No sex. No love. Just listening to ‘their feelings’.

Take note beta-orbiters.. YOUR TIME IS VALUABLE AND WORTH MONEY! Are you in the friend-zone?

Next time the bitch wants your shoulder to cry on.. pull out one of these with a straight face…


Oh wait..


get with the times dude..


Japan is dying because women.. in all their freedom, became selfish. They got all the rights and equality of men.. but whereas men always used it to further civilization and enhance and grow their societies, women are just happy to absorb everything, live in the moment selfishly and move on to the next area.

Like a virus.


Goodbye Japan.. it’s ok.. i’ve already gotten used to seeing ‘Made in China’ and ‘Made in Taiwan’ on my products.

I won’t miss you when you’re gone.

Your move North America.. your move.


  1. The problem that I see here is not so much one of “women shouldn’t be able to have a career” as it’s a problem of modern day narcissistic tendencies brought to an extreme. When a culture (Japan in this case) promotes individual satisfaction completely over that of one’s community, the decline will be inevitable.

    Am I, an American, one of those “career women”? Damn straight. I pay my own way, dismiss financial offers of assistance that aren’t also available to my male colleagues, and take pride in my work. However, I also recognize that my ability to stay happily singl/free means I should contribute to society in other ways.

    I’m never going to get married or have children, but I will own my own business (hopefully) in the next year. As I see it, I will have/do have a responsibility to my local community to support it financially or with volunteer work. I already donate to my food pantry and the Wounded Warrior Project, as well as volunteer at the animal shelter once a week. If I had more time and money, I’d certainly give more…because that’s what someone raised to care about others would do.

    What I see happening in Japan is an unhealthy exaggeration of individual choice.Should any men or women be legally forced to marry? Of course not. People are free to wed or not, as they desire. However, people of either sex should be raised to be caring, nurturing, and empathetic towards their fellow beings…if you have no spouse or dependents, that changes your obligations to civilization, it doesn’t eliminate them.

    I realize that this viewpoint will stick in the craw of MGTOWs who try to “ghost” or “go Galt”, and I do not begrudge them their own life choices. But for me, I couldn’t live in a society such as ours without feeling the need to give something back.

  2. ‘…effeminate spineless beta herbs’, love it!

    Of course they are but one of several cultures cultivating the same farm. Boys are becoming girls and girls are growing up to be men, ruthless and as unforgiving as the worst males can be.

    Perhaps we are all headed for annihilation under this new flag we live under, this brave new feminist empire. – A

  3. Excellent analysis piece. I’m guessing you have been growing mentally/philosophically because I would not have expected this from you, and I hope I am not being condescending to say that. I get the sense the Manosphere is moving beyond notches, beyond the improvement of our masculine quality in isolation and into the improvement of feminine quality around us. It had to be so from the beginning. The Manosphere is now on the radar of the MSM. American Healthscare has officially arrived. I just get the sense of a notable backlash to come in 2014. The intellectual input of ‘salaried women’ will not be necessary. They just parrot the agenda of reigning authority anyway.

  4. While amusing and pertinent to the post subject, I will vouch from ground zero that “Reports of Japan’s death have been greatly exaggerated.”

    Those types of sensationalist reports are just the equivalent of “If it bleeds, it leads.”

    Because, weird shit.

  5. Tarnished: “However, people of either sex should be raised to be caring, nurturing, and empathetic towards their fellow beings”

    Seriously, I want to puke. Another entitled b..ch – who do you think are you gonna f.ck when all men become women?
    I am seriously disgusted…

  6. @ramram

    I try to be as unentitled as possible in my daily life, and am confused where you might see signs of this in my comment. However, I’m open to discussion, so…how do you think people should be raised? Why do you believe that being nurturing/caring is a bad trait? Some of the most caring people I’ve ever seen are men with their infant sons and daughters, which I think we need more of in Western society…good fathers who are able to participate in their children’s lives. Obviously it wouldn’t hurt if more mothers were as well, thus my comment about *everyone* being taught that empathy is a good trait among a social species like ourselves. I’d like to know where you find fault with this?

  7. Ramram,

    I get your anger. Believe me, i’ve been there. Tho i think you are twisting what Tarnished said to be what you want to hear.

    Empathy is the driving force behind why our species thrived and survived. By working together, not by stabbing each other in the back. Christopher Hitchens wrote about empathy during his debates about whether or not our species ability to care for one another was innate and not handed down by divine morality from a deity. From the Wiki:

    “Humans consequently evolved “pro-social” emotions, such as feelings of empathy or guilt, in response to these moral behaviors.”
    “On this understanding, moralities are sets of self-perpetuating and ideologically-driven behaviors which encourage human cooperation.”
    “Human morality, though sophisticated and complex relative to other animals, is essentially a natural phenomenon that evolved to restrict excessive individualism that could undermine a group’s cohesion and thereby reducing the individuals’ fitness.”

    Also, Rollo has written about it as well here.. EMPATHY. It’s not fair to complain that women show a lesser ability (evolutionary or otherwise) to empathize with men, and then lambaste one who actually does strive to show empathy.

    Wouldn’t it be nice of all women learned how to truly be empathetic? There is a vast amount of miles between being caring/empathetic and being a sniveling, supplicating simp of an effeminate mangina. Context is everything.

    Do remember, although i am enjoying the decline from a distance, i am still firmly in the camp of team civilization in hopes it can fix itself. I am not on team hedonist, tho i won’t begrudge angry men awoken from the blue pill from going that route.

  8. @M3

    Thanks for the “go between” there. Yes, that’s precisely what I meant by empathy…being able to care about civilization/others, NOT being a doormat to those who would take your kindness for granted. I’ve met enough of those leeches in my own life, and would never wish them on anyone else.

    Strangely enough, I was thinking of Dawkins and Hitchens when I wrote my initial comment. Great minds, eh? ;)

  9. I am possibly more angry than I should be as I’ve just had (few hours ago) similar conversation with another woman… in real life and easily conflated the 2.
    I’ve swallowed a pill few years back but I admit there are few things that trigger me ;)

    The crux is – women don’t (want to) understand what is needed to raise a man. They seriously believe man == woman with just different hydraulics (unless it doesn’t benefit them).

    Tarnished – if you believe you know how to raise a man, you are by definition entitled. But I’ll give you a benefit of a doubt and assume you are some freak of nature who is actually willing to listen (emphatetic).

    You can and should raise your daughter to be caring and nurturing as these are primary characteristics of what defines a good woman/mother and makes her attractive as a wife.

    Your son on the other hand needs to understand how important in his life are integrity, honor and striving for excellence. These are primary characteristics that make a good man. As a corollary a man showing these characteristics will be caring of his wife, children and society but to put it bluntly “nurturing and caring” is not attractive to women – believe me – I’ve spent majority of my professional life working in charities (in 2 different countries) and I’ve seen enough to claim authority in this matter.

    Now, why you may ask the distinction is so important? If you try to teach your boy the same values you would your daughter and assuming lack of masculine authority in his life, you are sentencing him to life of misery – of him striving to be better man than his father or those other evil men he will see in TV. He will instead strive to become more feminine and with some more experience living in the hell of modern world, well, this is how you make a misogynist… unless he is lucky enough to be gay.

    The problem is men have abdicated and/or been pushed aside from having any role in bringing up their sons, while women have assumed full authority in the matter of “bringing up a better man” -more in touch with his “feminine side”.

    If you have a tiny bit of empathy in your heart try to imagine (maybe reverse sexes in the story?) the life of a modern boy, whose entire childhood until late adolescence is filled only with women – mom, nannies, teachers, child psychologists, pediatricians, etc. The world not only filled but designed to pamper female ego, where everyone pretends that women are of ANY benefit at all in the roles that ALWAYS were masculine, the roles a boy COULD normally aspire to fill to become a MAN. But nowadays, he is expected to kindly accept the authority of a female police officer (over 1 feet shorter) and he is to praise “women and men in the military”, etc.

    There is no such thing as “modern definition of masculinity”. Masulinity is what makes a man, and what makes him attractive to women. When you try to change it you admit to playing God with all the consequences.

    Choice of words we use matters…

    Now, M3, the question is – is it still worth to bring up a boy to be a man or are we just to sit and “enjoy the decline”?


    At the risK of alienation, empathy is NOT equal or even similar to understanding. There is no coming to an understanding with the female Tarnished. She is much more reasonable than the average female, but that does not make her reasonable because in fact she is simple less unreasonable by her disposition.

    Women do not like assholes per se: that interpretation is roughly accurate but still wrong for the impractical inaccuracy. Women like men who get results, and those men are COLD CALCULATORS who still can be smooth and warm and efffective at building societal relationships as well as eliminating them.

    Women like to control men, betas and alphas, with empathy. I thought ramram’s first comment was brutally truthful with language that could have been softened but would have cheapened the expression of the truth, which is what makes the Manosphere anything. Men have started choosing their own feelings over women’s feelings. Everyone has feelings, so having feelings means NOTHING about doing the right thing, which depends on where you bread is buttered. Resources are limited; women must be put in their place or become worthless ASAP. Women are ALWAYS selective about the FEEEEEEELINGS they recognized. They are always seeking a relative social advantage like terminators.

    I note the comment by BS that the video piece on Japan is one-sided and likely exaggerates the country’s state of affairs, but that shit just shouldn’t be period. The classification of feminism as a virulent cultural disease is well-deserved. It is time for men to keep counsel with men and get somewhere by thinking as, by, and for men. Once you understand the nature of women, it is in their own desperate interests as well. Women seek pain because they need to exercise their social climbing instincts.

  11. This perspective lends weight to the idea that beta orbiters are the ultimate enablers of female selfishness. I’m ashamed to say I was one at one point.

  12. @Reality Doug

    I agree with most of what you say. I would not want to be protected from either eustress OR distress. One is necessary to remain challenged and motivated, and I desire it at work. The other is unpleasant, but a part of the human experience. Both are what a typical adult goes through on a daily basis, thus having a “white knight” protect me would equate me to a child. No thanks.

    Perhaps ramram *could* have phrased his comment differently, but I agree that it may have taken away some of its power. My comment back to him was a need for clarification, nothing more. If I’m willing to throw myself in the kitchen, I better be able to take the heat.

    I deplore the need that most women seem to have, namely self victimization. Traumatic things happen in some people’s lives, including my own…but to constantly dwell on them is to make it a bigger part of ones personality than is healthy. Pain may be necessary for social climbing or to make others more likely to care for you, but this isn’t what an adult would do.

  13. I may have a certain proclivity to protect Tarnished, i feel somewhat protective of her.. but it wasn’t for white knighting that i stated what i did.

    The politician in me wants to keep this space from devolving into the kind of vitriol you can find on dozens of other sites filled with multiple variants of ‘women are shit’ keyboard veterans. Ram made a comment i found might have misinterpreted what Tarnished was driving at. He came back, clarified his position and a great number of words have exchanged without animosity. I call that a net plus.

    I’d have no intention of saving Tarnished from a ridiculous assertion if it couldn’t withstand withering criticism.

    I never censor comments or ban guys for their views, but i do try and create an atmosphere conducive to everyone getting their points across without it devolving into people shouting past each other. Dialogue suffers that way.

    I’ll write up some more when i get home from work. And answer other folks comments.

    PS. Reality Doug.. you wouldn’t happen to have gone under the name Doug1 at one point did you?

  14. @ramram

    Your comment deserves a response I am currently unable to give right now due to time constraints, but know that it will be the first thing I answer when I can.

    In the meantime, a few small things about me that might clarify my position;

    I’m 29 years old, have never desired marriage or children (and thus have none). I believe that the vast majority of boys need a father/father figure in their life to grow adequately, and vice versa for a girl. I myself have gender dysphoria, which helps to explain why I care more about male issues than female ones, and overwhelmingly relate better to men.

    See my posts here if you have questions on this admittedly odd topic:



  15. Japan is hardly “finished”, but it will beinteresting to see what happens as their birthrate craters – which it has. Who takes care of the old folks? Used to be the son, the salary man. But part of the herbivore phenomenon is that, like here, the salaryman (i.e., guaranteed loyal employee) is no more. And lots of the young of both sexes say: why strive for that killer lifestyle if there may be no reward for your efforts? So the men give up, and the women, for now, chortle and take their places. We’ll check in with them again in ten years or so and see if they still have the happiness.

    Also, as the Vice guy says, part of it is the Japanese trait of commoditizing everything, even hugging, friendzone chats, cyber-girls and fetishes.

  16. @m3 I like that you have open debate. This has been an interesting comment thread. My point, which I believe does not go away with any fragrant wordsmithing is that men have a choice between faux female civility and functional male civility. There are auxilary choices of vitriol and ignorance, but the essential and meaningful choice is between female social norms (feral not cultural) and male social norms (societal and sometimes civilized).

    I’ve never gone by Doug1.

    @Jeremy Me too. I assume the ruling elite had private conversations on how their families would destroy the men of all other Western families by miscalibrating their minds as little boys. (Let’s fund a Frankfurt School.) A boy can’t defend against all that. Children are not supposed to by design of evolution and nature. However, as men we can refine ourselves, which is why we ripen and rot later in the SMP.

    @ Tarnished You do not write like I would expect a woman to write from all the evidence I have ever known about women. Maybe you are in denial or delay of your mothering instincts (as was I about my desire for family for the social alienation on false premises), maybe you are an infowar operative, maybe…doesn’t really matter to me. I have learned to be precise with what I know I know and what I know I don’t know, and to be at peace with not knowing plenty but making a decision if it is mine to make. Regardless of who and what you are, I don’t think your ostensibly reasonable discourse is reasonable for the purposes of men recovering their masculinity and ending this systematic suffering and conquest, and those are my purposes here.

    @ramram Your hate is actually on the right track but no place to rest. It is similar to facing one’s fear and approaching women as a sexually aware and vibrant man, first ineptly but so what? There are the famous stages of adaptation to external control in order to survive it if not defeat it. One popular enough staged sequence for guidance is: Denial, Anger, ‘Bargaining’, Depression, Acceptance. I still feel anger and depression of sorts, but I am in acceptance. PUA is acceptance made practical, actionable. It is the gateway to discovering and developing patriarchal qualities.

    It is the lack of raw masculinity that makes modern Western men less than civilized (sycophantic). Civilization like all in life is based on conquest, on might making right. Women are THE PERFECT judges of feral/raw masculinity if you go by how they spread their liberated legs and never by what they say. They know nothing of disciplining relationships into a structure of human relationships that lifts its participants out of the muck above the animals. Give unto the genius of primeval female instincts that which is theirs, and give unto masculinity including yours what is cultural and therefore refined. Women only understand the power of refinement and consuming it. They are hardly artisans of note. Michelangelo, da Vinci, American Founding Fathers, Wright Brothers, Mozart, etc., etc.–all evil white men who collectively are responsible for modernity that inferiors enjoy as ‘morally superior victims’. Shame, shame, shame. Ya right. :) I’m getting right with that ‘shame’ and becoming a better man for it.

    In the end, we are in a battle of patriarchy, and the destruction of the nuclear family was an attack on the rival reproduction of cultural greatness from father to son. That which does not kill civilized white man patriarchy makes it stronger. Now the question is: who’s patriarchy? I seek fellow patriarchs to rival the patriarchy of traitors who attacked my manhood before my birth and destroy my family before I could even have it. PUA naturally leads to patriarchy. You guys and gals can deny it or not see it, but it is a fact, and it is happening before our very eyes. The Manosphere is now of the popular opinion that a good virgin-bride wife is far better than 500 liberated ‘just sex’ual experiences. The difference of using a condom or not is enough to make the choice in favor of a ltr, and the riches of family as a platform for masculine refinement and expression is a hundred times more compelling. That is why the MSM must villify the Manosphere, why the goverments must physically shut down our blogs, why the police will be used to stop our socializing verbally and in actions.

    The only defense is winning, and the best way to win is SEDUCTION. The useful idiots crave it, and the useful idiots are virtually all women and a majority of the men. You CANNOT abide by all the laws imposed upon you, and it has been that way for some time. The decline of civilization is always so. Political connections make the politically connected legal and any dissent about the haves and have-nots punishable with taxpayer provided means. Seduction is to create political pull as well as sexual release and maintenance. I can only show you the door to your masculine pleb destiny. I can’t make you walk in and explore the room, dear male readers. You will either field test Game as a habit, or you will never learn your true masculine nature and the nature of life.

    If you, dear reader, actually read all of this comment, you have way more focus than the average person. I now plug a short fictional story I wrote. It is under the menu item ‘7LI’ on my blog and called “The Seven Lorem Ipsums of Goog.” I expect most people will not like it. It and my blog are rather unpopular. I don’t have the palatable delivery of an Aurini or a Frost. I won’t use blue-pill salves. I can’t seem to find a style that will connect, but then if patrairchy is the answer as my logic tells me, the answer is to be discriminating with whom we connect and how much. It may be that there is nothing I can do since I cannot be civilized as a one-man island. The the Nu Wurld Oder wins, they will shape human society and select human posterity. If they do win, the will have proven to nature that they are our superiors with shaping culture and civilization. Evolution gave us civilization by selecting amorally for the competitive power of human cooperation. It the elites win and destroy humanity, evolution will simply champion something else. There is no progress without contest and culling as there is no progress without cooperation. I believe brains will beat brawn in the long run, but if brains ceases to wield brawn, it s rotting away. Betas will not be the future; they just f a d e a w



  17. Japan is dying because women.. in all their freedom, became selfish. They got all the rights and equality of men.. but whereas men always used it to further civilization and enhance and grow their societies, women are just happy to absorb everything, live in the moment selfishly and move on to the next area.

    This is quite a good point and speaks to the fundamental nature of women which used to be controlled by social norms but no longer is.

    Great post, M3, and thanks for the linkage!

  18. @Reality Doug

    Greetings again. While I could spend time assuring you that I’m none of which you speak, I already realize that it would do little to persuade you from your current stance. Nor should it, honestly. If your worldview states that 99.9999% of women are X, then it would be a difficult task indeed for me to convince you I am “one of the good ones”. Yes, albino crows exist…but if you have never met one in real life, you shouldn’t be blamed for not believing in them.

    Thus, it matters not to me if you believe that I am on your side, and that I would stand with my brothers in the fight for equality. Nor does it matter if you take every word I type with a grain of salt. It doesn’t offend me at all, especially as you’ve been civil in our discussion so far. You may not believe me…that is your choice and prerogative. I, however, know who and what I am, and that is enough for me. This is why I am continuously grateful to M3 for having a blog with a comments policy much like my own; open to disagreement and true discussion, but without harsh language or personal attacks.

    Now, more of my position will be clear once M3 moderates my last comment with the links to my blog, but I would like to cordially invite you to visit anytime you wish.

  19. @Reality Doug

    On a far more “on topic” subject, would you be able to expand upon your comment to M3? The one about faux civility VS functional civility. I’m fairly confident I know what you are referencing, but would prefer to see it in your own words so there is no miscommunication.

  20. @Tarnished,

    Know that I’ve read about your unwilingness to have children and my use of “Your son/daughter” was just a shortcut to describe “a child of a generic woman”.

    As you’ve noticed my pet peeve is women on the crusade to make boys in their mold (“nurturing and caring”) but since I’ve already explained this I’ll put it aside and focus on addressing my stance on something more important.

    I strongly believe in the necessity of gender roles aiming at “producing” masculine men and feminine women. There has never been a successfull civilisation that could exist after abandoning them.

    Simply put existing gender roles are the effect of their successful memetic evolution (you mentioned Dawkins so I believe I don’t have to elaborate on memes). I claim gender roles belong to the core of the civilisational memotype and trying to erase them is akin to removal of protein encoding gene from human genotype.
    Just as in the case of human genotype mutations happen and more successful genes propagate, there is a strong cause/effect interaction between gender roles and civilisation’s success.

    As gender dysphoriac as you self defined yourself, you may ask yourself a question – where does it leave you? Well, let’s go back to our comparison with genes. How do we call the belief and practice of improving genetic quality of the human population?
    Eugenics. What do we learn from it’s history? It never ends well for anyone involved. It’s memetic equivalent, let’s call it “Eumetics” will have the exact effects, we simply need to accept the fact that there will be deviations from the norm.
    At the same time there is other side of Eugenics: Dysgenic – an effect worsening genetic quality of the human population.
    “Dysmemics” would be it’s memetic equivalent whereby harmful memes are being promoted and this is the exact description of current ideological warfare executed on Western Civilisation by Gender Studies ideologues. The claim a child can willy-nilly choose their gender identity as this is only a social construct that we need to reverse/abandon is similar to introducing a virus into the human population that randomly attacks and changes human genome.

    So this was memetical explanation, to put it in more accessible philosophical/economical perspective – I believe in freedom of individuals and organisations to choose what they do for their own benefit but I am staunchly opposed any effort to equalize what is not equal by use of force or any other means. So if the military knows it will better function with no women involved they have absolute right to refuse admitting women, if a kindergarten refuses to hire men, they have absolute right to do so, and if let’s say you are a woman auto mechanic and you are good at it, it will be unwise for a garage owner not to hire you because it will be against his own benefit! Believing in freedom assumes no one can force you to do anything against your will and benefit.

    Gender roles should exist and be promoted, as they are templates that have been proven beneficial by sheer existence of the civilisation. Deviation from them should be tolerated and could be accepted (alternative is rise of feminist-like monstrosity), but not promoted as adjusting/corrupting majority in order to satisfy a few would be a tyranny of minority that never ends well.

    And most importantly equality both of outcome and opportunity is the enemy of freedom. The only type of equality that is compatible with freedom is the original definition by John Locke. This so called “equality of authority” says exactly that you are equal in authority which means no one can force you to do anything against your will/benefit. The other “equalities” are just progressive bastardisation of the term that brought us French Revolution, Communism, National Socialism and Feminism with their hundreds of millions of dead bodies.

  21. My mother raised me to be a good person(like exactly what you most people would describe). And I was for 22 years. What I learned was that there were no benefits to being a good person. None. Then I became a JUST person. A FAIR person and I saw the fruits of my new ideology.

    It’s the same with what’s happening to society. We are raising a bunch of boys to be manginas and girls to be whatever they want to be. This comes from the cause that most boys are now raised by their mothers only. No good men will leave their kids. Only in death.

    So it’s fair to ask this question: so if there are almost the same amount of men and women and there are a lot of boys without dads then what are we doing wrong? Simple. Women are currently choosing men based on looks, money and fame instead of honesty, loyalty, good-willness… They are the ones that say who can procreate and from the looks of it we are all paying the consequences.

  22. @Reality Doug

    It’s hard not to agree with what you write although, I spent enough time studying Cybernetics, Chaos and Complexity Theories to be highly doubtful about potential success of the NWO or any utopian dream of an engineered society of equal slaves. At best they will achieve suffering of billions of people but their ideas will never work in the long run – it is mathematically impossible.
    Long Live Patriarchy! :D

  23. @iDestroy

    By building a welfare state we subsidize women’s irresponsibility in their choices. Everyone who supports the idea of big government and government handouts + beaurocracy is at fault for creating the mess we are in. It’s that simple.

  24. @ramram

    “I believe in freedom of individuals and organisations to choose what they do for their own benefit but I am staunchly opposed any effort to equalize what is not equal by use of force or any other means.”

    Here we are in complete agreement. I am a strict egalitarian in most social aspects, and dislike what feminism has done in it’s more recent years…saying that men/fathers are unnecessary, attempting to force men and women into roles they don’t truly want, and changing the valuable idea of “equal opportunity” into one of “equal results”. If there are fewer women in STEM fields, and fewer men in nursing fields, perhaps it *isn’t* something that needs fixing, as it was never broken to begin with.

    There are numerous studies that show the vast majority of women would prefer to be stay at home mothers, and likewise that husbands feel better about themselves when fulfilling a provider role that their spouse and children are grateful towards him for. In spite of my own gender dysphoria, I am of the opinion that 90+% of men and women would be happier living out typical gender roles.

    Would living that way work for me? No, I can absolutely say I would be miserable if I had to deny myself the ability to compete in the business world. Nor would I be happy to give up my all male friends, my Xbox 360, my miniatures and boardgames, or my sneakers in favor of shoes, girl “friends”, dresses, makeup, etc.

    But I’d never be so solipsistic or arrogant to presume that everyone should think or live as I do. That would be folly of the highest order.

  25. @Tarnished

    “…and changing the valuable idea of “equal opportunity” into one of “equal results”

    I don’t think you’ve truly read into my comment otherwise you would notice what is my view on egalitarianism. Give it some time to sink in and (hopefully) you will notice that equality of opportunity is equally evil.

    Let me ask you a question that may help you understand it – what if the garage owner refuses to give you equal opportunity to try out at his place? What will you do? What should government do about it?

  26. @ramram so true… why should I pay for someone else’s kid. Do I feel bad for the kid? I do but if we keep going the way we are then nothing is going to change. We need to stop giving out handouts.

    I never understood why we give employment money without making people do something with it. It would benefit everyone if you gave them unemployment and a task that they can help with close to where they live. Keeps them busy, productive and motivated.

    Some days I feel so hopeless about the system and the mass brainwashing that is going on.

  27. @Tarnished.

    I realize that this viewpoint will stick in the craw of MGTOWs who try to “ghost” or “go Galt”, and I do not begrudge them their own life choices. But for me, I couldn’t live in a society such as ours without feeling the need to give something back.

    If I had to choose one statement from you that deserves correcting, it’s this one. You say you couldn’t live in a society such as ours without feeling the need to “give something back”. This I take to mean that you feel the need to contribute monetarily to the betterment of mankind. Yet you say you’ll never have children. Your choices are you own, I’m not telling you to change your life. However, you seem to be making the terrible presumption that having babies, and raising sound children *is not* giving something back to society. That is a foolish presumption if there ever was one. Forming a strong family unit and bearing and raising good kids is absolutely the best thing you can do to ensure a wonderful future for everyone.

    More to the point. Again, I do not begrudge you your life choices any more than I would a MGTOW, you’re likely reacting to what you’ve been given, and that’s not for me to judge. Because men cannot reproduce, their life’s work is embodied in what they have created with their own hands. Most women (and governments) tend to pretend that the production of men is theirs to command, while the production of women (new babies, future citizens) belong to individual women.

    The fact is that many men would love to give back to society, by being fathers. Yet because the women have decided they do not need men, and have rejected our involvement as fathers while taxing us for their own support, we generally would rather start a new government that continue to support this thoroughly abusive form of wage slavery.

  28. @ramram

    Ah, thank you. I see which part I had skipped over now. Let me clarify…When I read this; “Believing in freedom assumes no one can force you to do anything against your will and benefit. Gender roles should exist and be promoted, as they are templates that have been proven beneficial by sheer existence of the civilisation. Deviation from them should be toleated and could be accepted (alternative is rise of feminist-like monstrosity), but not promoted as adjusting/corrupting majority in order to satisfy a few would be a tyranny of minority that never ends well. ” it sounded very much like something I would say (namely, egalitarian).

    As for your example, if a garage owner knew my excellent mechanic skills and refused to hire me based solely on my physical sex, he would be in violation of the law, which states that employers are not to discriminate based on sex, race, age, sexual orientation, etc. Could he make up a different reason to tell a courtroom if someone sued? Of course! He might say that she didn’t seem strong enough, knowledge enough, or that he simply decided in retrospect that he had enough employees after all. Then again, he could discriminate in other ways, like not hiring any non Caucasians or not hiring anyonewho looked over 30 years of age.

    The government would step in, but (most likely) after numerous people complained…and even then, the process would drag out for years and waste taxpayers money. If this situation happened to me personally, there are many options available that don’t involve lawsuits. I could open a competing shop, I could find another garage to work for, I could go back to college and receive a teaching degree so as to become a Auto Tech teacher at a high school…a single bad experience would only bring me down if I let it.

    However, as you stated yourself, this sexist garage owner would be unwise to adhere to ideals that don’t benefit him, so he should hire potential employees based on how well they could make him profits, correct?

  29. @Jeremy

    I’m glad you’re not telling me to change my life, as it would do nothing anyway. I find it slightly disingenuous though, that you are willing to associate a stance with my person that I never took. Perhaps you didn’t mean to, but by saying that I don’t view good childbearing and childraising as an excellent way to give back to society, is putting words in my mouth…ones that I would very much disagree with at that!

    I have nothing but the utmost respect for men and women who become good, loving parents. They are one of the best backbones of civilization, and are truly the ones responsible for the new generation. I honor those who chose this path, and am incredibly sympathetic to men and women who are infertile or without partners.

    Yet that doesn’t change the fact that I’m personally revolted by the idea of being pregnant, that I have no desire for marriage and am the bearer of a personality type that is happier in relative solitude. Make no mistake: Just because I choose not to force myself into a gender role that feels wrong to me, does in no way mean that I come down on others who love and embrace it.

  30. @Tarnished

    You are getting closer as a proof this fragment of yours:

    “I could open a competing shop, I could find another garage to work for, I could go back to college and receive a teaching degree so as to become a Auto Tech teacher at a high school…a single bad experience would only bring me down if I let it.

    However, as you stated yourself, this sexist garage owner would be unwise to adhere to ideals that don’t benefit him, so he should hire potential employees based on how well they could make him profits, correct?”

    The above is exactly what anyone cherishing freedom would say, but… I am contesting everything else and here is why: you asumed status quo and used existing law to justify your answer (of what is really good vs evil). To put it in perspective, if it was 1800 and I would ask you a question: “What would be good thing to do if the slave you own stole food from your kitchen?” and your answer was: “The right/good thing would be to give him 50 lashes as the law says”.

    Let me copy here the original quote of mine:

    “And most importantly equality both of outcome and opportunity is the enemy of freedom. The only type of equality that is compatible with freedom is the original definition by John Locke. This so called “equality of authority” says exactly that you are equal in authority which means no one can force you to do anything against your will/benefit. The other “equalities” are just progressive bastardisation of the term that brought us French Revolution, Communism, National Socialism and Feminism with their hundreds of millions of dead bodies.”

    You see, enforcing equality of opportunity is violating garage owner’s freedom (“Believing in freedom assumes no one can force you to do anything against your will and benefit”) and automatically shows he is not equal in authority if someone else (government in this case) can force him to do something against his will (using law and police enforcement). In light of this information please read the original fragment written by Thomas Jefferson for Declaration of Independence:

    “We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable: that all men are created equal and independent; that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, and liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

    That’s what the Founding Fathers meant when talking about equality.

    Garage owner’s refusal doesn’t take away any of your rights and freedoms as you proved yourself in the last 2 paragraphs (it merely causes you inconvenience) but your possible lawsuit will cause him losing his.

    That’s why equality of opportunity is equally evil, always escalates to equality of outcome and both are enemies of freedom and… equality itself.

    Last example: Imagine US Senate is passing an act tomorrow: “Anti-Discrimination of Pregnant Women by Women who Decide to Remain Single Act” raised by women who felt it is discriminatory that the whole responsibility for nation’s reproduction falls on their wombs. Therefore the act organizes a nationwide lottery where all single women must participate and “lucky” winners will be impregnated by random sperm if they won’t find willing donor themselves. You happen to be “lucky” winner and are expected to get pregnant in the next 2 months but you refuse saying you don’t want to have children. Since your refusal is considered discrimination against other “responsible” women you are being sentenced 2 year in prison. But you don’t worry at least state enforced equality and non-discrimination… right… right?

  31. @ramram

    Your last example is a bit of an exaggeration, but if it were reality…well, then I hope the prison clothing is at least comfortable. I would certainly prefer to retain my liberty and freedom but if the only way to do so would be to subject myself to a state of being I find revolting, then I’d choose to serve my time.

    Otherwise, I do believe we are on the same page now. I would like to ask this though; Do you not think there are any amendments to UNITED States law that could make it so that equal opportunity is held to the standard of which I was presuming…one where people of every distinction are judged, employed, etc purely on merit?

  32. […] In such a society where relationships are abandoned because of too much tinkering with natural gende… […]

  33. Wow. Hell of a thread.

    @ramram, I think you are a genius. The reference to Locke’s definition of freedom is fantastic and new to me. I believe Locke was one of TJ’s top 3 intellectuals to study. The TJ quote is awesome, also new to me. It explains what the hell he could have been thinking when he wrote the DoI. From whatever I may have read in the past, I am under the impression that he got edited a bit in the DoI. There are many problems with the DoI, especially the ability of the federal government to create a fiat money unit by which to “fix the standard of weights and measure” of its own and foreign coin. Very sneaky wording. I also have long believed the DoI statement that “all men are created equal” was hyperbole to sell the revolution that would benefit leading colonial businessmen far more than the average Joe. I can give TJ the benefit of the doubt. The wording you gave, not sure where from or if the ‘original’ wording is very, very wise. TJ was my fav Founding Father, until I learned what he did to Aaron Burr, my currently fav Founding Father.

    I am conforted by your statement on Chaos and Complexity theories and the impossibility of ultimate success, not that it will matter for the outcome of my life, but I hate the idea of my enemy winning on GP. There is going to be hell to pay one way or another. Putting women in their place would be my #2 concern if I were establishing a patrarchy of my own.

    I wonder about your choice of ‘mansplaining’ to Tarnished, which goes to Tarnished request for an explaination of “a choice between faux female civility and functional male civility.”

    @Tarnished You don’t want the truth, if I had to guess. But you are quite persistent. If you are what you say you are, you appear to be a women who pinned her hopes of high social status (=like reproductive success in feral terms) on the superative authority of government that defined for you and all of us what a high status women is, who is now hitting ‘the wall’ or cliff of her SMV drop, and who can’t accept ‘failure’. The more you double down, the deeper into spinsterhood you will go. However, I realize that a suitable mate that you can look up to as female nature requires is well nigh impossible these day. I am broke myself, past my prime. I endeavor to be a player and have my sexual needs serviced since my service as a builder of society has been meet with stealthy utter sabotage every step of the way causing me great pain to this day. I can’t build on this foundation before us. I will step aside and allow it to collapse if given the choice, and later fight for the power to build on its ruins if I can, and if not me than a younger version of me that I hope to guide to that opportunity with my wordz in dez Interwebz, which is probably the best I can hope for. But anyway…

    Two words: evolutionary psychology.

    Women are less evolved and are organically hardwired for feral, non-cultural, non-societal socializing. Women are natural predatory vagina hustlers who manipulate others into relative status inferiority to get means of sperm and non-sperm, most preferably by invoking feelings that keep her vagina out of harm’s way and otherwise by selling her vagina on credit she would rather not redeem. The similarity between women and banksters is frightening: predatory credit and disinformation. No wonder they are natural allies though the women are totally cat’s-paws. Women reproductively succeeded in the wild by beguiling authority for his sperm and protection, if possible, or made do with just his alpha sperm and beguiled the beta orbiters for which she had contempt.

    I am painting a picture of female-determined social relationships: fluid, feral, short-sided, opportunistic, perfect for ‘pack politics’–everything contrary to wealth creation and management, to economic progress, to political accountability, to family that harnesses the sex drives of both sexes and permits fathers to pass on culture to sons, to the patriarchy that is civilization and that keeps women from debauching their own civilized utility by the power of their respective fathers and husbands.

    Women are NOT cultural beings, so they may as well be ‘evil’ in a societal or cultural setting, though I don’t think so literally because my worldview is not a theological construct. Cf. Roy Baumeister, “Is There Anything Good About Men?” and read between the lines if you can. Apparently, you are familiar with “The Selfish Gene.” There is also “Sperm Wars” and “The Red Queen.” Frost has a great reading list over at thumotic.com with those sorts of books for you to weigh facts as you will. I don’t feel the need to convince you of anything. Feminism has broken many, is breaking many, and will break many. A woman canNOT imprint on a man if she is experienced, and it doesn’t take much. Cf. Rector, Johnson, et al., Book of Charts, chart 16 or so, Heritage Foundation. If you are what you say you are, it may be that deep in your instinctive brain you don’t want to lose you status investment per the superlative authority of our day. Women who were rational must not have reproduced competitively with those who were braindead compulsive at gaining any reproductive advantage. That circuitry never shuts off it seems. I can’t believe the aged grandmas that have such high expectations of more than just sex, but actually I can. Women are not time aware like men, do not plan for the future or properly learn from the past. Typically, women are brilliant when they have happily submitted to a wise man with husbandry skills, a man who does not expect a woman to be anything more than what she is but expects her to be the best woman she can be. That is a happiness most Western women will never know, except maybe for 5 fleeting seconds with alpha, as Heartiste hath doth shewn, but that is a mere shadow of the splendor of quality husbandry. With the big paycheck comes the emptiness of casual sex deadened by a layer of condom or filled by VD or a screaming baby you can manage all by yourself.

    I would rather not be a father figure to my child than to do it on a liberated woman’s terms. I do not suppose to convince nearly all, and I don’t wish to try very hard. I will say a man must behave like a man, first with independence, or he is only perpetuating misery and surrender at best. He must act like a patriarch as much as possible. I suggest don’t move in, just live close, and if the baby momma does not comply, leave her and the child. The economics is better handled by the state and the chumps who support the system, and let the system collapse sooner. What young people will know how to pick up the pieces? Older children may sooner or later seek out guidance from their fathers. Let the contrast of liberated woman shine for what it is, especially for you own children. (I admit this is a recently conceived idea of mine. I may refine it, but for now I think close domiciles and the ability to withdraw without divorce rape is the best choice for a masculine and thoughtful man and his ‘family’. A man should own his marriage as the supreme authority on the matter. Patriarchs used to enforce that for each other, which is why families have ever been.)

    Men who put family first and so before patriarchy, with its fundamental tenet of masculine independence from feminine impertinence, deserve neither.

    Thanks everybody! Happy Holidays! Merry Christmas! Whatever flavor(s) you prefer!

  34. @Reality Doug

    As it is past midnight where I am, I’ll only address some of your assumptions.

    1. I am completely happy with the idea of spinsterhood, as I enjoy my solitude after a long day of dealing with customers.

    2. Unfortunately, I look young for my age. I’m 29, but am often legitimately confused for a woman of 20. While there’s a possibility that I’ll be happy about this when I’m 50, it leads to a loss of respect during business conventions, which frustrates me to no end.

    3. I don’t pay much attention to this idea of sexual market value, probably because I’ve only ever been on a handful of dates, and those were back in high school. I’m told I’m about a 7 in looks from various men, but I don’t wear makeup or do anything with my hair…I actually rate myself as a 5.

    4. I agree with you about the casual sex, condoms, threats of STDs, and unplanned pregnancies…it is a scary world out there. I’m lucky in that I’ve only ever had sex with my FwB of 8 years, and he had a vasectomy before I met him. If I had to learn to navigate this dating scene, I’m fairly sure I’d be an utter failure. Too much dishonest body language and odd pickup lines, from what I hear.

    5. I don’t mind basing my “value” on my achievements, and am on track to be a business owner and debt free in less than 2 years. I have a suitable amount in my retirement as well, so there’s always that. Note to any young readers out there: Begin saving when you are in your early 20s!

    6. For what it’s worth, I also agree with your breakdown of how the majority of women act. I live and work near 2 major cities, and the amount of welfare moms/baby daddies is atrociously large. Breaks my heart to think about the situation our country is in.

    7. I will take a look at those books you mentioned. They sound interesting, thank you.

    8. Lastly, I’m sorry you are in pain. As a fellow human being, I wish that there was something I could do to help you feel better. Should you desire, my contact info is listed on my blog, and my door is always open. I hope things improve for you soon.

    Now, good night, all.

  35. 1st world countries can afford the luxuries of a hedonistic/feminine society until they become 2nd world countries. History suggests two paths for declining alpha states: 1) Become a beta state paying tribute to a new alpha state. 2) Rediscovering your alpha status through disciple, loss of freedom / privileges, war and fascism.
    If there is a third option I would like to see it.

  36. @M3

    I apologize for the derailment of parts of this thread. :(

    It was not my intent to share so much of myself, especially as doing so usually leads to accusations of solipsism, but felt it was the only way to defend my position. I wouldn’t be offended if you wish me to further the discussions I’m having with Reality Doug and ramram somewhere else (provided they’re still interested in talking).

    Hope you’re having a good day otherwise.

  37. @Tarnished

    …that you are willing to associate a stance with my person that I never took…

    It was a straight line though. You were saying that you feel the absolute need to give back to society. The implication there is that men should give back to society too and that MGTOW was immoral on that basis. However, more and more the only way to give back to society as a man is as an unwilling slave to taxation (theft). Most of those men would rather put their efforts into *their own* kids. Your implication says that those men should feel good about being taxed and not being fathers, which is literally like telling the slaves to shut up and enjoy their porridge.

  38. I have to agree with @tarnished in some of what she says. Although raising good kids is a great way to give back to society @Jeremy, only giving to your kids is a reason why we are stuck in such a big pay gap. That is the way the richest think. “I only need to provide for my kids”.

    I think giving to your kids and to society is the way to go. Because what happens if you are in an accident or a misfortune. What happens to them if everyone thinks like that? We have to do what’s best for everyone and IF most people do that then we would also be doing what’s best for us and our kids.

  39. @Jeremy

    Except that they can have children without getting married. They could adopt a child, they could become foster fathers, they could find a surrogate to carry a baby made with their own sperm…there ARE options available. Hell, I knew a straight man who helped a lesbian couple he knew have a biological child, and he lived with them as a male role model. An interesting relationship? Yes, but now their son has 3 loving parents.

    Do I agree that taxes are probably much higher than they should be, and often fund ridiculous political crap that no one trul needs, like even larger raises for “the elite” of our government? Yes. Do I complain about paying school taxes when I don’t have children, or about paying into insurance that I’ve never had to use? No, because I’m a part of a society, and I have interdependence on others who help me to live comfortably.

    If I truly wanted to be 100% independent of society, taxes, responsibilities, social expectations, etc then I’d have to be a hermit living in the woods…and ever then, I’d have some responsibility towards the environment. Is it a terrible, unfortunate, and just plain horrendous thing, that some men have been treated so poorly and with such malicious intent by some women/society that they feel their only option is to basically give up? Damn straight it is. I hate the fact that our culture makes women into princesses no matter what they do, and infantilizes them to the point where they don’t even *try* to comprehend that they have individual agency and are fully responsible for their decisions. I loathe the fact that men have to be “alphas” or “bad boys” to find a mate, that male emotions are still viewed as a weakness, that so many women think of men as tools/wallets instead of equal beings.

    And I fully admit that I may be naive for believing we can swing the pendulum back just enough that we reach equality, where ones actions rather than pretty words are what gets you far in life. I dream of a society where everyone is appreciated for their contributions, where men can be men, women can be women, and the genetic oddities like myself are able to be themselves. Where everyone’s feelings are validated, religion is kept entirely separate from matters of law, and there is no reason for dishonest mating rituals.

    Is it possible? No, probably not. In fact, some people may even fight against it. All that I know is that I can lend a shoulder and ear to the men in my life, call out misandry and misogyny when I see it, and try to get “other” women to acknowledge that our culture is unfair to men in many ways.

    The only way to do that is to not give up on society, and to believe we can change it for the better. That’s why, even as a wage slave myself, I still pay taxes, give to charities, and strive to do well at my job. If other people (like certain MGTOWs) don’t feel it is in their best interest to do so, I have no qualms with that. I’m not living their life, and they’re not living mine.

  40. Oddly enough, by many measures, Japan is less “evolved” in gender relations than in the West. In the U.S. and Canada, you have whole professions and academic departments that focus on trying to bring some sort of gender balance in varying professions. Well, some professions anyway – the lack of female Ph.Ds in the hard sciences needs costly studies. The lack of female garbage haulers & miners does not.

    In Japan’s case, you cannot look at the current role of sex unless you look at the economy. After Japan’s bubble burst in the 1980’s, they did not have a Great Depression. No soup lines or shanty-towns. But, they did not have increasing standards of living either. For most average Japanese men, the best they could hope for is probably meeting their parents’ standard of living.

    But, women still look for providers. In the current economic climate in Japan, there are fewer and fewer men who meet the standard. The standard is not roof over one’s head and a car. That is the bare minimum. It is luxury goods & foreign travel. Since Japanese women are having fewer children, that means they have more money to spend on themselves. A potential mate will have to exceed that level of material comfort that she already enjoys.

    In the U.S., as the middle class hollows out, you will have a few lucky guys at the top of the economic pyramid, and masses of regular guys. The top men not only get their pick of women, they will get them in their sexual prime. Men lower in status have to accept that any woman who takes a mild interest in him will only do so after she can no longer snare an alpha.

    That may have always been the case. But, with women being more public than ever about their pursuits, and man walking down the street with his lady will have to wonder just how many men she has been with. A man must be willing to raise another man’s kid, sometimes 2.

    Even the women who did not pursue sex with abandon will still demand a high price. If you don’t have looks, you better have some sort of status in the community.

    The actress Kate Winslet has 3 children – each one with a different father. Because she is a successful actress, not dependent on a man, she can indulge her hypergamic nature at no cost to society at large. But there are plenty of women who cannot afford to live that way, but still have kids by different men.

    Ordinary men look at that playing field, and think back to that old line from the 1980’s film Wargames – “Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”

  41. […] I saw this at Mr. M3′s… […]

  42. This will be self correcting over time. Only women with a strong desire to reproduce will. And so on.

  43. As to getting the pill. I got the pill before it had a name. From my first girlfriend. In 1962. She taught me how to avoid being a mangina (before there even was such a term). She knew what women really wanted and taught me how to deliver it. Thank you Joan. I was under the mistaken impression most every one knew this. In a word she taught me “game”. Or at least its essential attitude. Thank you Joan.


  44. “Your move North America.. your move.”

    Expect more of this. “Equality” of sorts, heh.

    Isn’t irony grand?

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