Relinquishing Your Rights and Accepting Victimhood

July 10, 2013

[UPDATE: MRA EDMONTON’s campaign is starting to go viral and mainstream due to their ‘Don’t be that girl’ campaign. Follow along here, and make your voice heard in the mainstream. Viva la Common Sense and Sanity! ]

This post may piss some people off and enrage some. Oh well, i aim to misbehave. There’s something i should be putting up here.. can’t quite remember.. i’m sure it will come to me eventually.


New Years Eve, 1993.

I’m at a house party. The taste of Southern Comfort is permeating my mucus membranes. The women whom I have been pining for (and who would be my future wife) is there too. Everyone knows i have a thing for her, including her. She unclasps her bra from under her shirt and pulls it out through the sleeve of her shirt. It’s a black bra. Some of my friends wave it around the room as i chase it all over the couch and over the coffee table like an omega clown. I know i look stupid. I feel the fool. But i’m having fun nonetheless being the idiot. My logical brain is still running, it tells me i’m being retarded. It knows i would not be doing this on a normal day. And it says ‘What the hell, it’s NEW YEARS.. run with it’. Stupid inebriated traitorous brain.

I am drunk. Probably the drunkest i’ve ever been.

I still remember being in the bathroom, during the New Year’s countdown, with my face pressed against the cool tiles beside the toilet. I remember telling myself “You’re a fucking idiot, you’re going to miss the New Year because you drank too much”. My mouth wasn’t moving, it was drooling. All this talking was going on in my mind, unaffected by the room spinning or my blood alcohol level.

I still remember the rancid taste of pickle’s and Southern Comfort as i leaned back over the bowl to dry heave the last of the projectile vomit & bile out of my system, the sounds of party revelers droned out by my nausea, like the reverb sound you hear shortly after a loud explosion went off nearly knocking you out.

I recall every moment of every drunken episode i ever had. Especially the time my friend spun me on his shoulders and i flew off head first putting a huge whole into the drywall. Fun times.

This is why i have a problem with people who claim they never remember what happened, or blacked out. I think it’s a cop out..


Let’s say you can legitimately claim that. Hell you, reading this right now, have drank to the point of blacking out, or have done things while drunk you cannot remember. Time and again you drink and cannot remember a thing you did the night before.

If you know that drinking puts you into that state, what you are actually admitting is that you are a fucking idiot for putting yourself in harms way by entering a state whereby you relinquish any and all ability to prevent yourself from being a victim. To enter a state of Limbo where anything can happen that you have zero control over and are powerless to prevent. You enter a state where you can neither account for your actions or accept responsibility for them.

I needed to say all that as a prelude to where i’m going with this…

Of all the women i have known in my life, i know of 2 that have intimated that they were sexually assaulted. (I guess the other women either never trusted me enough to tell me, or that 1 in 4 stat is bullshit.. my guess is it’s the latter). These 2 ladies were some of my closest friends and i have nothing but complete sympathy/empathy for what they went through. One almost had her life destroyed because of it, and if the story is true and accurate.. absolutely horrifying. But when you drill down.. you see where my problems with it all comes down.

Neither person deserved what happened to them.. but in the end.. are they victims at all? I present the tale of 2 ‘sexual assaults’. I’m not here to judge them or say their trauma isn’t real. But i do have a problem with the official stories.

This story sucks. I hate it because i love this girl dearly (as a friend) and she’s such a sweet and good person that it hurts to even have to question her story. But logic and reasoning demands nothing less.


The first girl’s story ends off in a European country. After a long night of drinking everything goes black until she wakes up the next morning, naked, next to a male family relative. So distraught and traumatized by this stunning turn of events, she puts on her clothes and leaves the house and hurries back home. All manner of thoughts rush through her head. Why was she in his bed naked? How did she get there? Did they do anything? Did she come on to him? Was he drunk too? How could this happen? Why were they naked? Did they have sex? How could her own family member do this to her? How revolting could he be to take advantage of her?

But did he?

Realize.. no one can remember anything. Everything from the point of waking up is pure speculation. You can attempt to derive something from the known facts, but it’s still just a guess at most. What if she did come on to him and he was too drunk to rationally ignore her advances? What if they disrobed because it was a humid hot night? Why do drunk people do dumb things?

In her mind she firmly believed something happened and by all rights I cannot prove something didn’t happen. But she cannot prove that it did either (unless i didn’t get the full story and am missing information). But with what info i do have, i can rationally ask if anything actually transpired without being called a rape supporter or a victim blamer. Further i can legitimately state that her getting that drunk to where she could not remember the events leading up to her ending up in that mans bed.. while tragic and traumatizing as it were.. pretty much rests at her feet. It sounds like victim blaming but in reality it’s cold hard truth.

Put another way..

in 1998 my uncle and his best friend left a party. At 2am my mother got a phone call that my uncle wrapped his Ford Tempo around a light standard. Wrapped it around the passenger side of the car.


Not much was left of my uncles friend. Was my uncle very sad for killing his friend and filled with remorse? You bet. But it didn’t alleviate the fact that he had killed his best friend. No amount of claiming he couldn’t remember getting into the car or driving the car would remove the fact that he drank to a certain point and waived away any pretense of not carrying responsibility or liability for what would happen while he was drunk. That he might not remember getting into the car and driving it into a light post doesn’t mean he isn’t responsible for what happened. And it doesn’t end there..

The man who died.. well he paid the ultimate price and didn’t deserve to die, but he was equally responsible for his own death. By also drinking and waiving away his right to be sober, lucid and in control of his faculties to prevent himself from being a victim, he eagerly accepted to ride with a very drunk man. Any sane, sober individual would not have placed themselves in that position.

Drinking it would seem might put you in a position where very bad things can happen to you, no matter how much protestation to the contrary about not deserving it. Imagine if this young harlot ended up in a car full of extremely drunk and horny guys who didn’t have the capacity or the desire to curb their libido?

Would it have been their fault for taking advantage of her (whilst being drunk themselves), or her fault for entering a state that put her in that position in the first place? Thankfully, she ended up in a car with rational thinking men who turned down *HER* advances for sex.

Following feminist logic, we aren’t supposed to stop the drunk drivers, take them off the road and hold them responsible, we should be wrapping light standards in bubble wrap and foam, make cars out of cardboard or filling up with security foam Demolition Man style to soften the impacts brought on by a lack of responsibility and protect them from the consequences of their insane choice to enter a state of Limbo where they lack all agency.

Feminism: Don’t tell us to stop drinking and driving, it’s too much fun.. go out and make the concrete softer! Make cars more indestructible and safer! Bar men from driving on highways so there’s more room to weave! If women drive off the embankment because they were too drunk and going too fast, it’s somehow the men’s fault, so we should impose penalties and speed restrictions on male drivers!

These are the problems associated with getting blackout drunk. doing so means you waive away your right to sobriety, lucidity and the ability to recollect anything. Thus it makes whatever you think irrelevant. It’s the reason we have signs like this:


True story. Before i got married, i ended up getting drunk at a strip club and took home a woman who wasn’t a regular stage dancer, but a freelance woman who was obviously a prostitute. Obvious, after the fact. In my drunken stupor, i found her more good looking than she actually was and took her home. I coughed up the money because in my inebriated state i wasn’t prepared to argue it or try to ‘game’ her. Halfway through, my condom broke without me knowing. I didn’t cum but i was doing her unprotected. When i saw that thing broken around my shaft, the horror of it all hit me. The next 4 weeks waiting for the tests to come back were the most stressful horrible days of my life, to see whether i shit my life down the tube over some crack whore. You know what i didn’t do?

  • didn’t blame it on the booze i willingly put into my mouth in vast quantities
  • didn’t blame it on the whore for seducing me while i was under the influence
  • didn’t blame it on my life situation at the time, of being alone or unwanted or unloved

I owed it. Owned having gotten drunk to a stupid level (where i remembered everything still), drunk to having taken leave of my senses, taking a woman home who made a living taking strange, possibly diseased men home, and not double bagging it. HAD I BEEN SOBER, the night would not have happened. I had NO ONE but myself to blame. And blame myself i did on being stupid. I got lucky my test came back clean, a month before i started seeing my soon to be wife.


I have nothing but sadness in my heart for what my friend thought happened to her and how it ultimately affected her life. I can only say that had she not drank the volume she drank, a dark chapter of her life would not have taken place. Bear in mind, it doesn’t mean she deserved what happened (if it did happen).. but again, logically i have to ask, did anything actually happen? We will never truly know. It’s a sick way to phrase it, but it’s almost like a metaphysical though experiment such as ‘If a tree falls in a forest..’. If a woman believes she’s been raped, but the experience only exists in her mind.. did it really happen? She woke up and her mind filled in the blanks…

Ahem.. sorry my dear. Still not rape.

Ahem.. sorry my dear. Still not rape.

Our second woman’s story begins with meeting a nice gentleman at a coffee shop. They exchange pleasantries and after a while he invites her back to his place. In somewhat typical (and oblivious fashion) she assumes she is just going to his place for whatever girls think guys bring them back to their place for that doesn’t include sex. Perhaps to view his decor or something.. maybe to show off his IKEA couch.. or the potted plant. Really, what do you girls think will happen, i’m genuinely curious to know what you’re thinking?

Back to the story..

In no short order his vibes turn to the romantic and it becomes clear sex is on his mind, to which she is certainly not wanting to take part in. From right out of the Roosh handbook of steady but progressive advances despite her saying ‘no’ in order to break down her ‘slut’ defense, he continues to press for sex, in defiance of her protestations. So she made a choice. She told me that she felt very trapped in his apartment and was worried that he might become enraged or violent so she decided that against her own wishes. She would relent, lie back, think of England and have sex with him. Shortly thereafter she left. She considers herself not raped per say.. but still sexually violated because he didn’t take No for an answer and in her view, intimidated her.

Anyone wonder why Roosh might have such an idea that some women engage in token resistance?

(M3 Sidenote: I’m the first person here to back enthusiastic consent. I don’t know what joy you can derive from having sex with someone who doesn’t want to be there or isn’t involved. Really, you might as well get a blow up doll, it’s probably going to make more enthusiastic noise. Your just a selfish fuck if you fuck women without a care in the world about your partner. If you’re having token marriage sex where she’s doing her duty, at least try and get her into the mood. At the very least tell her you love her. I despised having sex with my wife when she wasn’t in go mode. I would actually stop before it even got started until she would ask what was wrong and i’d tell her i’d rather jerk off than fuck her uninterested ass. She’d usually get more enthusiastic when she knew i’d be going solo rather than ‘making love’ to her. But the same goes for entitled, clubbing slut women who just want to use a man for the night. I hate selfish women who only think of and use men as walking dildos/wallets/sperm doners just as much as Tucker Max types who just use damaged girls as cum dumpsters [but never forget who is allowing who to be used eh].. but that’s just my own opinion because i treat sex like art and not monkeyfucking.. back to the story)

Anyone guess where my problem is? You probably already know. She relinquished her agency by giving in to an assumption. Rather than assert her agency by acting upon that “NO” and proceeding to walk to the door, to exit, she instead created a hypothetical reality in her mind the she could voluntarily give up to rather than risk facing the truth. She voluntarily become a victim of her own choice. Because again, that’s what it was. A choice. She wasn’t put into a position where she was given zero choice. She simply gave up.

Let me tell you something. If some guy was trying to put his penis into my asshole, i would fight right up until i had a knife or gun pressed on me before i relented. I would keep saying no until my life was on the line. I wouldn’t give up whether it’s a salesman trying to sell me some shit over the phone, religious nuts selling me their god at the front door, or a man attempting to take something from me he’s not entitled to. I will keep saying NO without fail until the hint is taken, or my life is at stake. At that point, you roll with your best survival strategy, BUT NOT ONE SECOND SOONER!


I can hear it now.. “Oh but that’s your male privilege you forgot to check at the door.. she was in real fear of danger, something you as a male can’t understand”.

Ohh, i’ll do you one better. And that’s pretty insulting.. since you’re supposed to be all equal and shit, but now you’re saying you’re not, because what.. men are stronger and more intimidating? Hypocrite.

Anyways.. Let me tell you about the summer of 2008. I went to the C.N.E. with my new Olympus E-510 camera in tow, taking photos of anything and everything. Twas a great day. As night began to fall and i was leaving the C.N.E. grounds i stood on the bridge over the Gardiner Expressway, which presented me with a very sweet view of the skyline. Since light was scarce i had to set my camera settings to a low shutter speed to capture the night sky. As i was resting the camera on the bridge guardrail to keep the camera still, i overheard a voice behind me say in a very ghetto voice “Dats a nice camera boy, i tink it would look good in my hands”.  I turned to see 2 lanky African American tough’s in sterotypical gangsta fashion eyeballing my gear. He continued to his friend “Maybe we could use a camera like dat!”.. to which the other puke replied “Ya, maybe even that exact one”. They both laughed, the implication being almost too obvious…


Scene of the almost crime.

..but not obvious enough. It appeared robbery was in the air, but i had to be sure that was their intention.

I had a choice to make. I had a$1,200.00 camera in my hands. There were still some pedestrians about, but being Toronto, most people run away from crimes in progress rather than towards them to help out. So i couldn’t count on civies. There were 2 of them, and one of me. And i wasn’t the guy i am today. I was 40 pounds heavier.. but it wasn’t muscle that made up that weight. I felt real fear there, helplessness and a loss of control. I could have just taken the camera off my neck and handed it over to the two nice gentleman, and i’m sure they’d have been much obliged to take it and walk away.

I didn’t.

I looked the first cocksmoker in the eye and said “I’m sorry, i couldn’t quite make out what you guys were saying but it sounded like you wanted to take my camera from me?” I held the eye lock. I was calling his bluff. I was ready to do any number of things.. throw the camera over the bridge and run if i saw a knife or gun, mentally prepared to lose $1,200.oo with the satisfaction of seeing it break his face if he came towards me, start screaming for help in hopes there was still some good citizens left in “Toronto the Good”. I was prepared to do just about anything without shame or embarresment. I was no Chuck Norris, and i am not saying i’d entertain fighting them with macho bravado, but i’d run, yell, scream, scratch, claw, swing my camera, fight dirty, whatever it took. Anything!

Anything except assume the worst and hand it over without a fight. A fight where i could legitimately be destroyed, injured or killed.

Better than volunteering to be a victim.

The guy looked over at his friend, looked back at me, made some weird lipsmack sound and said “Nahhh, we just be kiddin wit you boy..” and trailed off as he and his fucktard friend started to mosey off. Not being one to count my good fortune, i packed my camera up and started scoping around for police cars and points of egress and ultimately, the quickest route to the next available TTC bus.

I refused to be a victim by choice. At great risk and personal cost if it all went wrong, but then and only then could i be able to call myself a ‘victim’. Once the choice is removed from my hands does it become victim-hood, but i had to stand my ground to see if it would go that far. I couldn’t simply assume it’s inevitability and surrender because it ‘looked’ like i was about to be robbed.

Although my friend had said No a couple dozen times.. she didn’t stick with NO. Unless he pulled a knife or gun out, and made an implicit threat of violence whereby giving in to being raped is the only way to survive, to get out physically undamaged rather than being injured or killed, then yes.. i concur. But she did not dig in and stand her ground. She made an assumption. She caved and allowed him to have sex with her. Sex that she did not want to have in order to head off one of a million possible branching timelines and alternate realities.


Every action can spawn a million possible outcomes. One such reality was one where the Borg overran the federation.

Let’s do the WHAT IF game:

  • What if she walked towards the door to leave. Would he block her exit or let her leave without a word?
  • What if she started screaming “No” very loudly. Would he cover her mouth with duct tape and rape her or would he turtle, shrink, cower and acquiesce?
  • What if she said she’d call the cops? Would he lunge at her or would he stare in stunned silence realizing just how far he crossed her line?
  • What if she asked him if he really was interested in having sex with someone who didn’t want to have sex with him? Would he laugh? Cry? Question his life?
  • What if she asked him if he would value sex if he had to fuck a woman he did not want to have sex with? Would he shrug? Would he capitulate? Would he engage in dialogue?

What if….

These are just the first things that jumped into my head. Are you seriously telling me women are such unthinking waifs incapable of thinking on their feet, that the slightest thought of fear inducing predicament retards them into yielding victims ready to be walked over without immediate support and outside intervention? Really.. is that how you’re going to prove you’re my equal?

We will never know. She abdicated her responsibility to determine that outcome and instead CHOSE her way out based on an assumption. She chose to lie back and think of England rather than assert her agency to not be a victim. Had she simply walked to the door, he might simply have let her walk out unmolested. She never gave that divergent parallel timeline a chance.

When you drink to the point of blacking out, what you are actually doing is relinquishing your right to do anything except be a helpless victim.

And even tho the majority of men will rather stand up and prevent drunken women from doing stupid things, there are some out there who would do harm, as the mother in this video can attest to:

As i said before, just because she didn’t deserve it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, and is little consolation to her now grieving mother.

When you go ahead with something you don’t want to do because you are afraid of one *possible* future, you are relinquishing your right to say you were a victim since you handed away any ability to determine whether you actually would have been a victim.

This is my problem with rape culture. It is the feminists ability to conflate REAL rape with imagined/perceived rape. To conflate REAL rape with any form of sexual misconduct from minor inappropriate touch, to instances where there is no factual evidence or basis for the claim. It is ENOUGH simply for a woman to believe it may have happened. As long as it exists in her mind, it’s rape, and that’s good enough for feminists. They need every one counted so they can hit their 1 in 4 bullshit. For me to make to even be making such statements.. it will no doubt make me a rapist sympathizer and supporter because.. patriarchy.. i suppose. I have nothing but empathy for my female friends who dealt with the effects of what they went through, but at some point (and it actually hurts writing this but..) you need to own up to the fact that you waived your rights as anyone else does in life when you act on assumptions or drink past the point of sobriety. Do you deserve what bad things might happen to you? No. But bad things do happen anyways…

.. just ask my uncle.

Responsibility starts and ends with you.

Don't teach boaters not to drink or wear vests, teach water not to drown people without lifejackets!

Don’t teach boaters not to drink or wear vests, teach water not to drown people without lifejackets!

It’s why i have no one but myself to blame for missing the New Year.

Oh shit! Now i remember what i forgot.. *Trigger Warning*. Damn.



I expect a lot of flak for this post and welcome any reasoned debate on any point of view i may have missed, as long as you check your hysterics at the door. Senseless flames will not get past moderation. If you don’t know how to debate in a rational manner, don’t expect your comments to survive here.

I want to add as a side note, that according to feminism’s script, the fact that i was accosted by those 2 black youths, and am inundated with news reports of crime being perpetrated by black youth all across the city in drugs, theft and gang/gun related violence, and that because of my ‘lived experience of fear’ in dealing with that situation i endured at the CNE.. i must now assume all black men are guilty until presumed innocent, look at every black man as a potential mugger who only restrains himself from robbing me because we have criminal laws against robbery, that black men should walk to the other side of the street to avoid putting me in discomfort, and that the best thing black men could do is to shut the fuck up and listen and park their privilege at the door since they rarely have to worry about a white boy trying to rob them so they’ll never understand the constant fear i live under.

Sounds fucking racist and retarded doesn’t it. Welcome to feminism.

(h/t to Judgy Bitch for the inspiration and being a vocal leader in the field of granting common sense back to women)


Rape Jokes About Men Are Okay


Drunk chick gets in car with man she doesn’t know to do a line of coke, ends up getting raped. Totally didn’t see that coming! Utterly shocked that Grand Jury won’t indict! The state of rape in the USA.


Are all men obligated to protect all women from sexual assault?


  1. In somewhat typical (and oblivious fashion) she assumes she is just going to his place for whatever girls think guys bring them back to their place for that doesn’t include sex. Perhaps to view his decor or something.. maybe to show off his IKEA couch.. or the potted plant. Really, what do you girls think will happen, i’m genuinely curious to know what you’re thinking?

    LOL, M3, I wish I could answer that question for you, but I have always wondered the same thing. Like when you read about some girl going back to the hotel room of a professional athlete, and later filing sexual assault charges – they always say they NEVER intended to have sex with him…and I always wonder, “Well, what were you planning to do then? You think he’s just inviting you back to watch TV or something??”

    Oh, and thanks for the linkage!

  2. Not going to lie…this was a pretty difficult post to read. I’ve never been raped, so I can’t speak from experience in that area. My sexual abuse was of an entirely different category.


    Hearing stories like these are why I have never gotten drunk, why I’ve never been to a bar, why I’ve never done drugs, and why I’d never go anywhere alone with ANYONE I just met, regardless of what’s between their legs. Not only is this a supremely idiotic list of things to do…but why the hell should one relinquish control of their mind and body.

    The way I see it, the Lady and Lord used the process of evolution to gift us with intelligence and reason rather than claws, wings, fangs or strength. To give up the use of these gifts so easily through abuses of alcohol or drugs is folly of the highest magnitude.

    Needless to say, I agree with you, M3. I am truly sorry for the pain your friends and family went through because of their lack of decision making prowess. I wish none of these things happened to them, and to all the others out there who have to live with these feelings and repercussions. But it is also important to remember that, yes – bad things happen even to good, sober, non addled people – yet at least SOME of these occurrences could be eliminated simply by staying in control of one’s body and mind.

  3. Man, Hard but great post. One would think that stuff like this would get some of the people (read: Feminists) thinking, but we all know by now that they only Feel.

    I’d say comparing the “getting drunk then getting raped” to your uncle’;s story (from the viewpoint of his friend) is a very good way to illustrate the fact that people who do not want to be harmed should not put themselves in a position to be harmed. It’s a simple fact that most man-hating feminists Should get; If you do not want to be violated in such a way, then you Should Not put yourself in a position to be violated in that way. it all goes back to what I say about most Lib: they want the rights without the responsibilities. End of story.

    But they Never realize that the responsibilities are Part of The Costs of having those “rights”, be it the “right” to drive a car, or the “right” to go out and get shit-faced drunk while dressed similar to a corner-dweller.


  4. Most lib+ Most Libs (Liberals)

  5. […] whoism3.wordpress.com […]

  6. Southern Comfort? That is horrible!

  7. I think we have made a serious error with this notion that ‘we shouldn’t judge people’.

    Well goddammitalltohell – yes we bloody well should! There SHOULD be shame associated with acting like a slut, drunk or otherwise. This goes beyond feminists to liberals at large – trying to separate actions from consequences.

    The days of casual sex are over, guys. You really need to judge that female you are thinking of having sex with.

  8. Raising hand, jumping up and down, ooo! ooo! ooo! I have another story. This one took place at a house I once lived in, Roverado Italy. About eight years after I moved out. The following is what I have pieced together from reading the released exerpts of chain of events.

    A group of women (one, a civilian contractor healthcare worker) meet two pilots at the officer club. They have been drinking. One married pilot (for reasons unknown…well, it was a pretty good party house) decides they can go to his house. His wife is home, babysitting the two children of a deceased friend (also a pilot). They have one son also.

    The contractor woman meets the wife at the house and proceeds to drink more. Several people offer her a ride home, she refuses. At some point she enters the room of the sleeping children and kicks her shoes off (probably thinking it’s the guest room, she has no memory of this event, too inebriated). The wife offers her the guest room downstairs. From this point the facts are sketchy…the only sure ones are that she was wearing all of her clothing at all times, with the exception of her shoes. Her belt too was fastened and stayed in place. The next morning she said something to a friend that was not admitted as evidence to the court martial jury, but did later serve as a key piece of exculpatory evidence on the defendant’s behalf.

    Per the events in question: The “victim” asserts that she thought she was dreaming, felt some pressure, and then awoke to a bright light (this fact of evidence, too, was in dispute the light in that room was dim and on a timer) and the wife was standing in the doorway, her husband laying beside the “victim”. The wife asserts that the husband was in her room sleeping and she ordered the “victim” out of the house because she was loudly walking the halls and texting on her phone (the texts, too, were exculpatory evidence on behalf of the defendant). Really….the victim has little recollection of events beyond the pressure et al. She did end up walking home (with shoes if my recollection of the story is correct) in the middle of the night.

    The defendant husband was charged with sexual assault. Under normal circumstances, absent all hard evidence and testimony of one person under the influence versus another sober and another under the influence, this would never have gone to trial in the first place. But no commander wanted to seem like he/she is sweeping a sexual assault claim under the rug so of course an investigation commenced. After which, evidence still absent and no commander wanting to dispute a sexual assault claim in the days of witch hunt trials, it went to the court martial board. The jury was then comprised of individuals who also didn’t want their careers adversely impacted supported a conviction. For military trials, there is something called the convening court martial authority who serves as a check and balance for those trials (jury decisions do not require unanimity, only a majority vote, unlike civilian trials). The convening authority in this case, after reading all testimony decided he could not in good conscious support a conviction beyond reasonable doubt.

    You’ve probably read about this trial many times. The “victim” was on television, the pilot has been assigned to her relative’s hometown and they’ve picketted at the base. It caused Congress to get the vapors and they went into hysterics, Secretary of Defense Hagal even proposed that Congress remove the convening authority from the process (this would be a direct violation of the Constitutional protections of US military members as citizens, but that’s another thread..). Since that aquittal it has been arsholes and elbows as the media, fueled by monumental ignorance scrambles to manufacture outrage.

    Review the above story, this is what happened from the halting, unsure drunken testimony of an almost fifty year old woman, with her clothes ON.

  9. @ Liz

    That’s an intriguing story. I’m going to have to google it and check it out.

  10. Just wanted to add the following.

    Look at this comment thread. It shows precisely the mentality we face when dealing with rape-culture-tards…


    Sean makes a great case in the most inoffensive way, qualifying and almost groveling with every statement in an effort to appease the rape culture witch by blunting his remarks with as much sympathy as possible. Kelly’s response is just staggering and shows exactly why reasoning with these people is hopeless and best left to ridicule, as Yobbo clearly demonstrates in his response.

    Anyone who enters the fray with a mentality like “Rape is rape, and it is not up for debate” is going to get the short end of the stick from me. Rape isn’t Rape if you have determined unwanted touching to be rape, or consensual sex you later regret as rape, or an encounter you can’t remember as rape.

  11. Heh…when I was dating a chick a while back I would constanly go back to her place for a little makeout fun (but never any sex). One day she flat out yelled…”I wish you would take advantage of me”.

    I broke up with her shortly after that. Women know exactly why you go to her place or she comes to yours. To look at your potted plant and its seeds.

  12. M3, The name of the defendant is Lt Colonel Wilkerson.

  13. @ Earl

    “To look at your potted plant and its seeds.”

    I think i just went wee in my pants.. this line is nutbusting funny.

  14. Another chick I dated…would always sit on my lap and makeout with me while we were at one or the others place. This was after she made the comment she enjoyed coming over to watch my television or look at my coffee table. One time she even suggested we lay in the same bed together so that it would be easier to watch the television. I was much more logical then so I said…that doesn’t make sense since I see it fine from the couch.

    Women are predators posing as house pets…stay in public places at all times with them.

  15. I like it when people seem to think I stayed a virgin because I was frustrated and bitter sexually.

    It actually drives girls nuts when you “play dumb” and go all logical after you’ve been with them for a while (granted by accident when I did it but now I see why it was great). The other side of the story was I was in those girl’s heads all the time and they started investing in me by buying me things and cooking stuff. Now I wasn’t a complete prude with them…but I gave them enough to have them at least think I could do it.

    Personally…everybody knows how to have sex instinctually. That’s why I would say that no one is ever technically a virgin. Physically…yes, but mentally not at all. Men just think logically about sex…penis into vagina and the details don’t matter. Women think about it in coded phrases, looking at photos of things that look like dicks and vaginas, and plausible dependability.

    I’d rather practice messing with a girl’s mind because that takes a little more talent. There is something more to a woman who thinks a man could do it…but also has the self-control to not do it.

    Keep the truth away from them as long as you can…they can’t handle it.

  16. *plausible deniability

  17. I always appreciate the honesty you weave throughout your posts. Again, we can look at personal responsibility square in the eye – as well as mentioned above: judgement. Our culture has disarmed judgement and preempted outcomes (for the victim classes). I don’t think any amount of resistance or reprogramming by the oppressor classes is going to change the narrative. It is too far gone. That said, we must continue to try if for no other reason than to preserve our own integrity and sanity in the face of the absurd.

    I am glad you touched on the PUA approach relative to the incremental sexual escalation-consent model. It is no coincidence that the alcohol is indeed the ultimate lubricant of the PUA approach. Sure there is the “day bang”, but in terms of the thick part of the sexual marketplace, both sides rely on alcohol far too much.

    That said, men are the keepers of Risk. We own it whether we want to or not. We must assess, manage, mitigate, and price all risk we encounter for we will always be the default carrier of outcomes. Because of this, we must have greater situational awareness, restraint, and assessment skills.

    Feminism frames this as power, as privilege, but really it is just an extension of the ubiquitous responsibility placed on men. A woman has the right to set loose her agency into the ether, men will always have the responsibility to both mind his own outcomes as well as hers.

    The only true way to translate that forced responsibility into power is through restraint, through diligent assessment of risk, and actions based on that assessment, which more often than not is accomplished via self-limiting choices. That is the way of our culture. The only other option is to check out of that culture entirely.

    I do volunteer work with kids. As inconvenient as it often is for me and others, under no circumstances do I ever allow a situation in which I am alone with children. I make parents stay after an event if other parents are late picking up. I know the real risk of some kind of accusation is low, but I also know that the damage is in the accusation and NOT the truth. Just one small example, but because all the risk is mine regardless, I have to mitigate how I see fit.

    As much as it is nice to have a vodka-lubed woman at a bar show interest, similarly, I just don’t engage with drunk women. Ever. If a woman is in my house AND drinking, it is either as part of a group where she is “with” someone else and/or that woman is my girlfriend. PUA men and their aspiring hoards take on great risks in those alcohol fueled tactics. We will never put the female agency kitten back in the bag, so we either eat that risk sammy in order to indulge in the grey areas of personal responsibility or we have to self-limit in the name of risk mitigation. Any other way is in many ways a bit of cake-eating on our part as well.

    ONS and hookup culture treads through the DMZ of risk and responsibility. It is a literal minefield for both men and women, but 9 times out of 10, when the dust settles, the legless man will never be a victim, only the perpetrator. Sex with strangers, drunk strangers, is just not worth the risk. There are better strategies IMO than trolling the DMZ for one-off’s. But that is also the cake of self-indulgence and hedonism and narcism that fuels the cold war that is the sexual marketplace. For many, the cake is just too sweet and they cant put down the fork. Cheers.

  18. To me, the way-too-drunk situation comes down to a striking disparity:

    The woman who gets drunk is not responsible for her actions.
    The man who gets drunk is responsible for his actions… AND for hers.

    If feminists were interested in equality, this state of affairs would be unacceptable to them.

  19. It’s not just drunk sex, Copyleft, the man is always responsible. “Equality” is just a buzzword for feminists, no point trying to reveal their hypocrisy, lying is a legitimate means of publicity to them

  20. I remembered every dumb thing I did while drunk. However I was a good enough liar to use the “I don’t remember what I was doing” line to get out of some of the dumber things when confronted.

    I can’t imagine women having the ability to lie like that. After all… pure beacons of morality.

  21. I can’t stand drunk women…

  22. “Let me tell you something. If some guy was trying to put his penis into my asshole, i would fight right up until i had a knife or gun pressed on me before i relented.”

    This certainly puts things in their right perspective, doesn’t it? How a hetero male would react to this (and how he’d conduct himself beforehand) makes feminist definition of rape look like a joke that it is.

    A man would not go naked to bed with a gay guy.
    A man would not allow a guy to put his penis into his asshole just so he stops annoying him.
    A man would not scream rape, if he allows a guy to put his penis only halfway in, and he instead puts it all the way in.

  23. @Emma

    True, a hetero man would never get drunk enough to go to bed with a gay man. But a gay man would, and there are numerous stories about gay rape. Remember, the human survival response is “Fight, Flight, or Freeze”.

    For example, if two gay men meet at a bar, have a few drinks, and agree beforehand to oral sex with each other, that’s fine. Now, if one of the men decides oral isn’t enough and tries to force the other to allow anal, the victim of this assault will have these three options:

    He could do like what M3 says he’d do, and fight like hell to get away, taking and giving punches.

    He could run to the closest exit, maybe throwing things at his attacker or threatening legal action if he pursues.

    Or he could experience freezing, where your muscles tense up and you partially lose control of your body. He’ll still not want the anal sex, but he will “allow” it to happen because his mind is protecting him by dulling the attachment between physical and mental. I’ve experienced this myself, and felt extremely guilty about it until I learned many years later about the 3, not 2, responses of the human body to trauma.

    The unfortunate thing is, until you are actually IN a traumatic situation, you can’t truly say what your response will be. You can guess based on how your personality is, but even THAT isn’t foolproof. Anyone (female, male, gay, straight, bi, etc) can experience one of these three reactions.

  24. Oh, no! The speech police at Salon have learned about the posters that urge women to behave responsibly when drinking. And they are not happy.


  25. “A man would not go naked to bed with a gay guy.
    A man would not allow a guy to put his penis into his asshole just so he stops annoying him.
    A man would not scream rape, if he allows a guy to put his penis only halfway in, and he instead puts it all the way in.”

    I’ll go a step further, I wouldn’t have a few beers with man-0-sphere real men ™ like Matt Forney, Jack Don-0-van, Roosh or GL piggy…

    Same goes with male feminist’s like H. Skeezer and Manboobz Futile…

    and I certainly wouldn’t go back to Mandy Marcrappy, Clarisse Thorne or Jill Filipovich’s place to see their empowered, “sex positive” strap-on toy collection and get lectured how I’m a mysogynist for not licking their HPV infested vaginas…

    I went to a catholic HS. It sucked balls. I never wore deodorant. My mom lectured me on this and said I smelled really bad. Well, it kept the preists and the football team away. One day there was a preist scandal on the news and I told my mom, “see, that’s why I didn’t wear deodorant.

    I’m sure some condescending M(h)Ra is reading this and thinking I’m a homophobic misandrist wheras some man hating femanzi thinks I’m a mysogynist evillle victym blamer….

  26. It looks like the idea that women are pursuing short term sex with the same gusto as alpha males is making the NY Times:

    Sex on Campus: She Can Play That Game, Too


  27. Tarnishedsophia,

    “True, a hetero man would never get drunk enough to go to bed with a gay man. But a gay man would, and there are numerous stories about gay rape.”

    I suppose you have a good point there.

    I have heard of the freezing response, and have sympathy for those who had to face it and felt guilty about it. But I don’t view it as rape out of principle. And while this response exists, feminists use its existence to say that each time a woman reluctantly gives it up without force or threats of force, is rape. That is far from the truth (but I guess you weren’t disagreeing). I think fight and flight are more commonly known for a reason, and the definition of rape is supposed to reflect that. But making rules out of exceptions is what feminists do best, and I really don’t like that.

  28. I have been staying away from this whole discussion and didn’t even want to read the piece bc it makes me very uncomfortable.

    I have not been raped. I have what I would call my sexual freedoms violated (both times ironically by not a stranger but a guy I dated). Whatever, it happened and been taken advantage of in any scenario sucks and hurts and is sometimes illegal and sometimes not.

    I only want to address the example you gave regarding your uncle and his friend. The drunk driving incident. I am greatly sorry for your loss. It is a tragic thing. I have friends who may have experienced a more cruel outcome: being the driver who survived only to wake in a hospital bed to find out they killed their best friend (then went to prison for vehicular manslaughter).

    I think it is terribly unfair to use this as an example. You can manipulate metaphor, like stats to suit your own needs.

    We can stick w or wo the drunk factor (the second incident where the girl is in the apt she isn’t drunk right? She .. Her reasoning was a bit off but yah I’ve ended up in guys’ apts and it wasn’t till I got to the door or was sitting on the sofa did I realize shit it wasn’t just the flower pots! Or ok make out put.. Anyhow, nativity of youth or inexperience are those things that are a womens fault too??)

    Drunk/not drunk scenario: you leave your CC at the bar bc u opened a tab and forgot to close it. They have your ID as collateral as is the norm often. You can been stone drunk or stone sober to be forgetful

    Your fault when you become the victim of identity theft? When every area of privacy in your life is penetrated. Someone can literally contact a relative close friend colleague under false pretense as you. They wipe out your accounts plummet your credit, have your car repossessed?

    This is a severe violation that is not the same as rape but the feeling of being violated, persistent paranoia etc is not dissimilar. Not the point.

    They catch the guy.


    “they shouldn’t have left their CC and ID. Their fault, provided opportunity”

    This a valid. Excuse? Takes away the responsibity of the the person who committed the crimes.

    You’re on a jury. The answer is: ??

  29. Reblogged this on judgybitch and commented:
    An introduction will follow shortly.

  30. Audi, good to see you’re still around 🙂

    As to the matter at hand, i’m glad you brought up the credit card analogy.

    Yes there was a violation. Yes they catch the guy. Yes there was a trial, and it finally comes out that he stole the info from somewhere other than the card left at the bar. Let’s follow this through start to finish.

    1. The credit card company asks that you report the card missing right away as lost/stolen. You are responsible for all purchases on your card while it is in your possession. Some cards have theft prevention insurance for online purchases, but not for in store purchases. You lose your card, you call in right away before the thief starts buying.

    2. If you leave passwords/pins unguarded, YOU are responsible for all liabilities. It’s in your credit card handbook. Same with debit cards. If you’re in a drunken stupor and give your card to someone with the access codes, you aren’t allowed to later tell the bank you were drunk and want the money back. It’s done.

    3. Pick smarter friends/relatives to share personal information with. I would suggest not leaving your PIN numbers with any senile relatives.

    4. For it to go to “Trial” it would mean there would be a FULL investigation done and believe me, in the insurance business, they will scrutinize EVERY aspect of the injured party to look for negligence or liability. There will indeed be VICTIM blaming if it is discovered you left your CHIP card on the bar and screamed the PIN number to the bartender as you went to the bathroom, without seeing him actually take the card to the machine. Every crime is treated as such.. a crime, to determine who is telling the truth, without omission of facts, which requires detailed examination of everything the ‘victim’ did.

    There are so many grey areas involved in sex too wrt concent so why the fuck would you enter into such an arena drunk in the first place? Of course with so much inebriation, sexual tension and mixed signals there is a huge chance for something to go wrong, too many variables to consider. Here’s what chaffs my balls about rape and it’s inherent YOU CANNOT ASK THE VICTIM ANYTHING mentality, to not challenge what is an accusation against another person about something as intimate as a sexual encounter where the chances of a witness are miniscule and boils down to he said/she said. There is NO OTHER CRIME.. including MURDER, where this type of standard is applied, to not examine the ‘victim’. Those who suffer the most grievous injury, parents who have children murdered or taken/abducted are ALWAYS questioned and most often are usually the first place to look when police look for suspects IN SPITE of how horrendous the parents are feeling. Forced to account or relive moments, made to question or second guess what they did, where they last saw their child, what else they might have been able to do, or be treated as a suspect.. THEY ALL MUST ENDURE IT during the course of an investigation.

    Finally, imagine a world where many parents simply left their small infantile children to wander supermarkets at will, stroll through parks and wooded areas, or to cross ‘the train tracks’. If something happened, how many parents would be up in arms blaming these idiot parents for leaving their children to wander alone. “DON’T BLAME ME, BLAME THE PEDOPHILES”. This utopian nonsense and bullshit that we shouldn’t take precautions, expect the world to become benevolent and prevent itself from doing bad things against us is the mentality of mental midgets.

    So why should RAPE be treated any differently?

    “Anyhow, nativity of youth or inexperience are those things that are a womens fault too??”
    I think the word you looked for was naivete. And let’s be gender neutral here. They are not the purview or sole domain of women to be naive. Perhaps you read my little ditty IS IT FAIR? Men can be just as naive as women.. and yes, they are made to pay the full price without exception for that naivete.

    “I think it is terribly unfair to use this as an example. You can manipulate metaphor, like stats to suit your own needs. “
    Stats can be manipulated of you cherry pick and use out of context. I did no such thing. Please show how it was unfair. You may think all you want, but until you actually show me how it was unfair to use as an example, i shall write it off as simple hysteria.

    “I have friends who may have experienced a more cruel outcome: being the driver who survived only to wake in a hospital bed to find out they killed their best friend”
    Forgive me, but i think your friends DEAD friend, and all his family/friends/relatives would disagree. Your friend WILL get out of jail one day. He WILL have a chance to rebuild, make something of his life, can come back from the trauma. Maybe not ever to where he could have been, but a far cry from being worm food. Your friend will live forever with the knowledge he took someone elses life. That is harsh, but it’s life, it’s owning responsibility and accepting consequences. CRUEL would be having to face and apologize to his dead friends parents and loved ones every day for the rest of his life, wearing a sandwich board saying ‘I KILLED MY bEST FRIEND’ on a street corner 15 hours a day, and denying him any chance of having a job or future. That’s cruel.

  31. With the dead friend analogy I meant its anymore cruel fate that being dead himself. Every example I used are actually things I have experience or watched people close to me experience.

    I had cc fraud twice in a month and the company came up w some loophole not to investigate and you can’t imagine how violated it felt knowing someone was out there I may or may not know (i didn’t leave it anywhere which makes it scarier). They know where I live, my personal information, it’s like… You never know or like your lookin around corners paranoid and start questioning everyone and everything in ur life. So yes there was a perpetrator I just don’t know – much like the drunk black out sit.

    I have a friend that ran over and killed a 6 year old. Not drunk. Just a kid ran to soccer practice and …. Where you u think she’s now? Leading a normal life? Killed a 6 year old in front of his mother, 20 parents the soccer team, I could see the blood running down the street from my apt window (i lived across from the field) and my friend in actual shock that she never fully recovered from. Live are ruined all around for all kinds of reasons

    I have friends who got wasted and were in situations where they did acts of sex they didn’t want to that were drunk and realized only when it was too late.. They never cried rape but in my eyes if a girl says no more than like 4 times, her eyes nearly rolled back in bed head.. That’s taking advantage. A grey area but a shitty one.

    They question friends and family in child… And rape cases bc the stats are it is usually someone close. It’s not to torture them it’s bc historically they are often the perpetrators.

    So, I want to know. You consent to sex. You do not consent to it being videotaped ur not drunk but the guy does it? What is that?’

    Or you ask him to wear a condom he says of course tears it opens pretends to put it on but slip of the wrist doesn’t – now u r at risk for god knows what for someone you did not consent to – bareback sex?

    Is that a grey area? What is that.

    Violation, taking advantage – and really yes there are cases of wolf crying but for the most part… I think taking one example of some stupid lying bitches actions to rip down the fact that rape is real most accuses are not lying and the whole bc I was drunk wearing a mini skirt means I was asking for it is taking the male/female dominance thing back 50 years. Well if he got it in she must have said yes..

    We all do stupid shit. Walk through bad neighborhoods at night. Doesn’t make it our faults when we get robbed. It just makes us.. Stupid.

    But there are grey areas I don’t argue w that.

  32. It’s hard for me to imagine why this is a difficult post for people to read.

    Personal responsibility is the lifestyle choice of the adult. Either own your own poor choices, or accept the fact that you’re a biologically mature child.

  33. We all do stupid shit. Walk through bad neighborhoods at night.

    Actually, no.
    We don’t all do stupid shit. I’m tired to death of this phrase. Somehow people are allowed to say, “well we all do stupid stuff,” to excuse putting themselves in harms way. It is the classic post-facto rationalization, probably the early stages of hamster, to simply say that everyone does stupid things. Once you’ve established that everyone does stupid things, then your own stupid things look less inexcusable. This is a horrible logical fallacy and a childish rationalization for poor behavior.

    NEWS FLASH: Not everyone does stupid things, not everyone takes stupid risks, not everyone walks around half-dressed and drunk in an attempt to “loosen up” and have friends or get over a bad break up.

    Humanity only betters itself when individuals choose to engage their capacity for reason instead of blindly following imagination.

    Part of the process of raising a human to adulthood is to teach them the difference between a stupid decision and a good one. The difference is easy to learn, the good decision is one you thought about the consequences of. True wisdom is impossible to impart without experience, you cannot make someone wise. But you can force them to think about the consequences of choices early in life so that they remain aware and thoughtful of what’s going on around them.

    This phrase, “well, we all do stupid stuff,” when used to excuse a mistake is little more than an excuse to be an irrational being and truly less-human than humans are capable of. The answer is simple, don’t be a stupid idiot. Think about what you’re getting into. That doesn’t mean you can’t drink and get a buzz going. It doesn’t mean you can’t be some adrenaline junkie doing crazy stunts. It does mean that you have to think before you walk outside your door, you have to consider the consequences or you’re just blindly opening the doors to a hellish nightmare of potentially bad outcomes.

  34. I just meant in life not specific to the bar scene. You never did something like touched the hot stove example
    And then learned not to do it again

    And guess what. Gettin wasted and dressing like I please isn’t stupid. How is it stupid? Are men so unable to control themselves they are excused from… Well she was asking for it? No self control? Who’s the stupid one? Taking a girl home u know to not be in a state to
    Give consent? Knowing the potential consequences?

    That’s stupid.

    Every guy who crawls into a girls dorm room finds her passed out after a few too many – not blacked out or uncouncious just passed out and gets on top of her and well she’s sleeping so she didn’t say no… And the girl wakes up to find a guy she thought was a friend (yes there are no guy friends but if ur not … Dating or even flirting ur in a no fly ‘down’ zone).

    Is that the girls fault? That happened to a friend. She didn’t report bc she didn’t want her friend to get in trouble and many women are embarrassed. More rapes go un reported than… You would imagine.

    So, is that rape?

    If you woke up and ur roommate , a guy, was stroking ur balls bc u had a few drinks it was super hot so u only wore boxers to bed got wood and ur hard cock was out for ur closeted roommate to see, opportunity! He def wants it, why else would he be here w his hard dick out not saying no?

    Or even if it was a chic! You didn’t want to with. You had a gf or whatever reason. Is that an invite?

    Would you not feel violated. It that not illegal

    And is the drunk passenger legally responsible btw? I’m not sure. If you get in scar of a drunk driver it’s a bad idea but if you r driving the car u are assuming responsibilty. That’s the diff. There are Sooo many situations of this not just related to sex or drinking or..

    Parenting. A woman is sleep deprived she is suffering post pardem. The baby starves to death. Is the husband and father at fault in the same value as the mother? He’s the passenger right. They decided she would stay home and take X responsibilities in regards to caring for the kid, he took X responsibilities for working 12 hrs a day.

    This was an actual court case where the mother was prosecuted and the father exonerated or maybe got a much lesser charge.

    A woman says no once. That’s it. She’s drunk, she is sober, she’s in nuns garb or a skin tight catsuit responsibility is on the man to practice self control. Or else plead insanity? Everyman is not insane bc they can’t help themselves if a hot girl incapacitated is in their home?

    You admit this?

    I’d still like to know thoughts on the video/condom consent thing

  35. “I had cc fraud twice in a month and the company came up w some loophole not to investigate and you can’t imagine how violated it felt”

    Correct. I can’t. Can i safely assume you were not blackout drunk giving away your personal details?

    “to rip down the fact that rape is real most accuses are not lying and the whole bc I was drunk wearing a mini skirt means I was asking for it is taking the male/female dominance thing back 50 years.”

    The thing i want you to take away from this post is not that i’m condoning rapists taking advantage of drunk women. I think i made that abundantly clear in and throughout the post.

    It’s about everything Jeremy just said. It’s about what JudgyBitch said in her post. It’s about those grey area’s where you could have prevented or acted upon to prevent/avoid rape. Where every feminist will conflate every sexual encounter with anything over 0.001% alcohol in your system to end up in a statistic claiming 1 in 4 women will be raped. It’s shit like that.

    Nowhere am i saying that women deserve what they get, anymoreso than victims like the car analogy deserve what they get. But at the end of the day, when you are drunk, you own everything that happens while you’re in that state, whether you are the actor or acted upon simply because had you not been drunk, you would have been able to respond.

    It’s why we don’t get upset at the man cutting the long grass on a tractor when he runs over a drunk who fell asleep in the park. Tragic yes.

    You ever hear the term “Time heals all wounds”? It means that given X amount of time, the mind adjusts to whatever reality you are in, and a new normal happens. Some longer than others. But it usually takes hold. It’s how our species copes. You know who that phrase doesn’t apply to? The dead. Your friend who ran over and killed the 6 year old, will have moments of life not tormented by that action. Even the mother of the child will have a few fleeting moments of normality throughout her life, tho never be the same. However, the dead girl will always remain dead. She suffered the cruelest fate. Not being allowed to grow up.

  36. I stupidly put myself in the position once of letting a guy take me home on a first date (I was dumb enough to believe him when he suggested we were only going to watch a movie with his roommate). It was clear when we got there that the plan was to try to have sex with me. I looked him in the eye and said “take me home.” He tried to equivocate and stall and I restated my earlier statement and said “take me home now.

    He took me home and I never saw him again.

    I wasn’t drunk (didn’t have a single drink) and hadn’t led him on at all- but I guess he felt like he had to go for it. The night would have ended differently had I been drunk and I would have only had myself to blame. Staying sober meant staying in control of the situation- always a good strategy when dating. Why do so many women find this so hard to understand?

  37. Ok I get it now. This is not a post about rape it’s an anti drinking campaign. Makes more sense now

  38. I just meant in life not specific to the bar scene. You never did something like touched the hot stove example
    And then learned not to do it again

    I can accept that you may have meant it as a general case, but don’t you think that phrase is abused en masse by those who would justify their immaturity?

    Gettin wasted and dressing like I please isn’t stupid.

    Yes it is.

    Agreement to a loss of rational awareness of your surroundings when you clearly know there could be trouble is a sign that either you have no concept of the tenuous nature of civilization, or the person accepting such a situation is just plain retarded.

    Let me ask you a simple question. Would you walk around naked in Grizzly country in the spring when they’re waking up from hibernation? How about swimming off the rocky coast of a Sea Lion mating area after a few beers?

    If you say no, then at some level you accept that risky behavior, or a lack of mental faculties is to be avoided when animal instincts come into play. You then accept that Grizzlies and Sharks will follow their nature and attempt to eat you if you put yourself into a position of weakness in front of them, regardless of whether or not you look like the perfect meal.

    Guess what? Basic Male instinctual nature is sexual initiation in the absence of resistance. Either accept that fact, learn to appreciate it for how good it is for society (and it IS a good part of society) and learn to gracefully put up resistance to advances, or live in fantasy land. That is your choice. Males have a different choice to deal with, but no less difficult. If you put yourself into a position where you cannot mount an effective resistance while hanging around in a place where the males around you are also potentially intoxicated and acting on their own instincts, you get what you paid for.

    What you or anyone else deserves has got nothing to do with it. What you do by dressing scantily and getting drunk around other drunk males is put yourself in a situation where animal nature rules everyone’s decision making process. If you cry about what happens as a result, that’s like complaining that the grizzly didn’t let you go when he was hungry.

    Civilization is a thin veneer on human nature, not a security blanket which keeps you safe in spite of poor decisions.

    Are men so unable to control themselves they are excused from… Well she was asking for it? No self control?

    From these sentences (which I will forgive) I see that you somehow believe that alcohol has no effect on male inhibitions, and only affects women. I see you live in a biochemical fantasy land. You expect drunk males in a place of drunkeness to have perfect clarity of thought and to be absolute oaks who would never behave instinctively, all while you and other women are behaving instinctively by enjoying the power of your drunken sexual display.

    Is the picture becoming clear? Neither party should be 100% responsible for their behavior while intoxicated, but both parties are fully responsible for putting themselves in that position.

  39. Jeremy,thank you. The clarity of your comments are awe inspiring. You’re saying everything I wanted to say, but so much better. Thank you.

  40. I think you made your point clear. We are all animals.

    However the legal system… Says the animal that performed the carnage is liable.

    It’s not my fantasy land it’s first world nations’

    If that is what we are going with.

    And btw isn’t like learning to go against our natural instinct (liiiike eating massive amounts of carbs and fats bc our cave man brain tells us hoard hoard hoard this is rare… I am actually an evolutionary psychology believer and studied it heavily in university and have a psych degree. Biology rules? So drug addicts. Missing the allele that enables control like others and forfeits their ability to experience pleasure from activities others do – it’s cool for them to junk up. It’s how they evolved and there is a now extinct evolutionary function for it. No, they must perform self control.)

    And then guys are responsible for getting wasted too. As I said this is not about rape r sexual opportunity it’s about not getting drunk. It’s an anti-alcohol piece.

    People kill others and themselves drunk due to lack of inhibition like … a lot of shit.

    So, you drink at all?

  41. Whatever. Im not condoning the sluttification of the nation.

    I’m not thinking from a “female perspective”

    I actually recently wrote about a time, no TWO times female on male rape was attempted. Once by yours truly, I was 12 and hormones were a flowing I thought hey I’ll spike my friends tea w NyQuil …

    A more well real example of when I was traveling in the portuguese riviera and my gf saw this completely obliterates Scotsman and she just … Wanted to lure him to our hostel and “have her way with him”. We were 18, not sure fully aware of whisky dick so well just yet but the intent… And execution would have continued had his friends not intervened – good friends btw are clutch!

    So, in tbat case the dude was the attempted victim no?

    This is not about men taking advantage of women bc they went and “lost control” but about anyone going and getting plastered and… Losing control.

  42. However the legal system… Says the animal that performed the carnage is liable.

    This is also a statement which ignores human nature. It denies female agency in the sexual market. It essentially says women are children and not responsible for their sexual display.

    Now, try to imagine what a world where women are not responsible for their sexual display would look like. It may be difficult, but please make the effort. It is worth it, we will all learn something.

    If women were never responsible for their sexual display, then they could essentially walk the streets naked and touching each other suggestively 24 hours a day. Society would just forgive them and presume they’re no different than retarded children who play with themselves in public. This would run entirely counter to female empowerment which suggests that women can be the mental equals of men and accept responsibility for their actions.

    So what do you want? Do you want to have equality with men and be responsible for your actions? Men are held accountable for what they do, so if you want to be on par with the guys mentally, you need to own your behavior. Or do you want to just be free to display yourself in any way you wish, with no consequences?

    That’s an open, hypothetical choice I give you. You cannot have both. Either you’re an adult and you acknowledge that there’s two sides of responsibility to sex, or you call all women the equivalent of sexual retards.

    …evolutionary psychology believer and studied it heavily in university and have a psych degree. Biology rules? So drug addicts.

    I believe the current literature on drug addiction acknowledges that the primary component of addiction is having a serious mental illness. Yes, chemical addiction does exist, but no blank-slate baby just up and decides to go do crystal meth.

    And then guys are responsible for getting wasted too. As I said this is not about rape r sexual opportunity it’s about not getting drunk. It’s an anti-alcohol piece.

    That’s not quite the picture painted. This is a piece about personal responsibility. Many women use the myth of being blacked-out-drunk as an excuse for their poor decisions after the fact. Worse, many of them accuse men of rape to cover up their poor decisions. This essentially criminalizes male instinct, destroying male lives because of poor female decisions. However, there are plenty of other situations where women conveniently pretend they just didn’t know any better, and it’s all the man’s fault that they had sex. Women conveniently become the absolute antithesis to female empowerment and pretend they have no ability to resist when it comes time to publicly demonstrate their own lack of sexual virtue.

    So, you drink at all?

    3-5 times a week. Usually a Pyrats and Coke these days after a sailboat race. I know my limits. I have and will never put myself into a position of lacking mental faculties in a public place. My profession demands that I maintain such standards of behavior, and frankly it opens up good opportunities to consistently demonstrate responsible behavior.

  43. Lots of common sense in this post. So much, that the perpetuation of the “dirty whore” myth engaged in by the author is a great shame.

    Sex workers are a group with one of the lowest incidence rates of all STI’s.

  44. —> Sex workers are a group with one of the lowest incidence rates of all STI’s.

    Regulated sex workers, perhaps. Are you from Europe? There are very very few areas in the U.S. where the sex worker industry is regulated. I’m not certain of Canada/Toronto (where author is from), but I suspect it isn’t that much different (i.e., not terribly criminalized, but not health regulated). Unregulated street walkers have generally high incidence of STI (STD).

  45. Aw man, I just realized in that picture of crazy Riker that they digitally added a panel to the display screen for this alternate-reality enterprise.

    +1 Nerd.

  46. You are aware there are societies that are… Naked. Have you not read national geographic ever??

  47. The idea of being the victim of a rape while black out drunk probably does happen, but not to the degree that some advocates claim. In the gun-control debate, that is like the extreme position held by some gun-owners that any mild law, such as how many guns you can buy per month, or limiting the number of rounds – that is a short step to the gov’t seizing your guns. You hype the most extreme example to shut up the opposition.

  48. You are aware there are societies that are… Naked. Have you not read national geographic ever??

    I see I have more work to do.

    The answer to your question is yes, I’m quite familiar with public nudity. I’ve enjoyed it myself on beaches from time to time. I’m even familiar with family structures in the U.S. (a very protestant nation) where children grow up with family nudity as normal behavior. Not only am I fine with this sub-culture, I would encourage society to move in that direction if I could.

    What I am guessing you are trying to say is that cultures with normal nudity have no socially accepted boundaries for female display, that women in such cultures can act without regard for their affect on the men around them. This is not true at all.

  49. @Jeremy: excellent responses man.

  50. If a man goes out in public and gets robbed by a criminal, the robber is 100 percent responsible for the crime itself. However, the robber may not be 100 percent responsible for the victimhood of his victim, if said victim failed to take reasonable measures to protect himself.

    Crime and victimhood are two seperate entities. A victim may bear responsibility for his own victimhood, even if he bears no responsibility for the crime that was committed against him. This is the point that rape culturists fail to grasp. Every adult in our society who claims to be a fully free human being has a duty to look after his/her own personal safety, by taking reasonable precautions and by not putting themselves into a dangerous situation. If you are not willing to take full responsibility for your own safety, then you should not be allowed to make your own decisions or to go wherever you want, because then you will be a burden to those others, who’ll have to clean up your messes or deal with the fallout of your bad decisions.

    Here’s what I mean: A rich man decides to put on his fanciest clothes and go alone and unarmed into a gambling den in a bad part of town. While there he flashes large wads of cash and wins a ton of money. He walks out of the club and starts down a dark street for about a block or two, at which point he gets jumped and mugged.

    You would find it hard to argue that this man was responsible for placing himself into a situation where he would be an easy and profitable target. Even if the man himself led a sheltered life and had no idea any of this stuff could happen to him, ignorance of common sense is no excuse–he still bears some responsibility for what happens to him.

    Now let’s say that the rich man put on his fanciest clothes, armed himself with a pistol, and then went to a public concert accompanied by a couple of bodyguards. While there, the concert gets attacked by thieves who take everyone by surprise, take hostages, and then disarm and rob everyone (threatening to shoot the hostages if the people at the concert don’t comply.) You would find it hard to argue that the rich man is responsible for his own victimhood in this case, since he took steps to protect himself, (and since a public robbery where hostages are taken is an event with such infinitesimally small odds of ever happening in real life. )

    Whether you are to blame for your victimhood or not depends on the steps you take to publicly protect yourself. If you live in a dangerous area and/or are so weak that you are incapable of protecting yourself, then you SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAVE COMPLETE FREEDOM IN WHAT YOU DO AND WHERE YOU GO. PERIOD. If you want to make others responsible for your own security the way a child does, then you cannot have any more freedom than said child. A woman who gets dead drunk and expects her guardian angels to protect her from equally drunk, horny and impaired men, is a woman who should not be allowed to make her own decisions. End of story.

    Absolute freedom comes with absolute responsibility. No exceptions.

  51. Ok. Fine by me. Totalitarian regime where no one is allowed free choice bc people are incapable of taking advantage of others when the opportunity presents!

    There is an action and a reaction. It is the reaction we are talking about having the detrimental effects. Whatever the case may be.

    The action is what it is.
    Men feel comfortable saying they are unable to control themselves around women who are enticing to them should, why not be castrated or chemically castrated like many child molesters are?

    Why disallow the woman to dress and act as she please?

    (I’m not condoning anything just making arguments, in the legal sense of the term).

    Why women’s responsibility? Why not have men wear “chastity” belts that prevent them from acting on the impulses they are so weak to abstain from?

    Ie. cultures where sexuality and nudity is fully open and promote ritualized homosexuality, the intermingling of sexual acts of young children including prepubescent intercourse is found in tribes in the south pacific. Further research to provide extract details.

    Ok now that we’ve shut down the bar scene, where y’all gunna practice your pickup?

    Banned alcohol. Ok, its been done ( and failed horribly) in the US.

    Impose curfew. Has also been imposed and never came of much good in the US and other cultures.

    Disallow designers to create, stores to sell “skanky” clothes.

    And yea every drunk girl seen be branded an no longer ever allowed the free will of doing so.

    Because men can’t control themselves. I mean it’s biology right?


  52. Feminism: Don’t tell us to stop drinking and driving, it’s too much fun.. go out and make the concrete softer! Make cars more indestructible and safer! Bar men from driving on highways so there’s more room to weave! If women drive off the embankment because they were too drunk and going too fast, it’s somehow the men’s fault, so we should impose penalties and speed restrictions on male drivers!

    LOL Quite spot-on.

    What would happen afterwards? A hint – risk compensation.

  53. Thank you for this post.

    Feminists never want to accept their responsibility for the so-called “rape culture”. They think that when a female has sex against her will, it is immediately elevated to the level of THE WORST THING THAT HAS EVER HAPPENED TO ANYONE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD AND YOU WILL NEVER GET OVER IT.


    I’ve had regrettable sex. I admit that. But it would never occur to me to claim rape without actual, you know, coercion. Cheapening the word “rape” to include everything you don’t like is an atrocity, and it puts women in the horrible position of being doubted when a real rape occurs.

    Don’t like where you wake up after a hard night out? Take a look in the mirror and respect yourself. Don’t become a child with no agency because you’ve had a few cocktails. Have some pride, damnit.

  54. Right there’s regret and rape

    Two TOTALLY diff things

    In no way am I condoning crying rape after a regrettable evening (which thank god I’ve never had)

    I don’t know any woman (do you) that cried rape after that?

    I didn’t even cry rape when I was sexually violated bc of that lovely “grey area”.

    Women who are raped. Forcefully have their vaginas torn open, get over it!!!!

    One of my biggest fears is rape bc I love sex I fuxking love it. And If I couldn’t enjoy it w the purity of adoration I do now bc little triggers like scent, a smile, a jerk of any kind swung me back to the ultimate act of violation, I think I may really want to die and many victims say they wish they had been

    I don’t know but telling something to get over something you don’t know shit about (I don’t either but I’m not telling anyone to do anything) is… What do YOU think it is?

  55. Great post M3. Feminists need to women up and empower themselves instead of just claiming victim status all the time. Real victims have my support but all the imaginary ones can fuck off.

  56. Here is what I think: Being forced to have sex, would be unpleasant. If violence and coercion were present it would be EXTREMELY unpleasant. BUTBUTBUT I would think carefully about the circumstances that led me to that point in time, and if there were a possibility of avoiding that in the future, I would.

    Going to a stranger’s house–A FUCKING STRANGER’S HOUSE– is not smart. Getting drunk to the point of mental collapse and blackouts is not smart. I avoid those situations.

    And if it did happen God forbid, I’d deal. I’ve been molested once but never raped, and it does not inform the rest of my life and ruin my relationships. I wouldn’t let a rapist have that power over me.

    And the fact that it is the feminists, of all people, who are encouraging this perpetual wallowing in poor-me victimhood, is nauseating. In their intent to empower women, they’ve infantilized them.

  57. Ok. Youre a martyr

    God less you. For all men who take advantage of naive young intoxicated women everywhere u r their ste

    Feminists? The legal system

  58. Nice.

    I appreciate this. Except.. Oh lost cause

    It is no feminist in me that makes this post and the comments here abhorrent to me.

    Feminist is… Not a label I’m comfortable with. Especially since feminist hate me.

    It the public health side of me that is sickened.

    Men have admitted to lack of being able to control their repitilian brains. Yet blame women for having fun.

    Blame people who make mistakes

    Everyone here has made a misjudgment of some kind.

    Or are you all saints. Maybe it’s just my crew. But we all have gotten obliterated wasted at some point and neeeevrrrr left one another or let each other get or stay in a precarious situation. Even at 30 years old id never leave a drunk friend alone in a bar. Maybe it’s not skanks but bitches w no one who had their back that end up on thier knees in an alley

  59. You misunderstand me Audacious.

    I’m not trying to be a martyr or holier-than-thou. Far from it. Like I said, I have had drunken sexual encounters that I’ve preferred to forget. But I UNDERSTAND as I don’t think you do, that part of the thrill of sex is that danger, that manipulation of our base urges that we all have-female and male. The chase and pursuit is very hot, and sometimes the ending is not how we might have preferred it, especially if we misjudge our drug or alcohol intake.


    If you read a bad book or see a bad movie, does that put you off all books and movies forever? No, of course not, because you understand that one bad experience, in the universal scheme of things, is trivial (No I am NOT saying that rape is trivial). A rape or sexual molestation is a horrible thing. But it doesn’t have to end your life.

    There is billions of dollars in infrastructure for a woman who has been raped and wants to wallow in man-hating tears and feminist righteousness for the rest of her days. Because SEXISM, you know. But a woman who wants to dust herself off, learn, and move on is considered damaged, or mentally ill, or in denial, or self-hating.

  60. Again there is a diff bt regrettable sex and forced entry. Vaginal tearing can say as much

  61. For some reason that great scene from Lawrence of Arabia
    keeps popping into my head. Peter O’Toole is putting out a burning match by pinching it with his fingertips. A junior soldier follows suit and squeals “OW! That Hurts!” Lawrence/O’Toole looks at him, smiles serenely and replies, “Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts.”

    Think about it. 😉

  62. Ok. I’m not a rape victim so… It doesn’t hurt and I don’t play w fire. Go to a rape crisis center, stand up and say just that.

    You do that… And I’ll respect you to no end

  63. LOL. Why would I go to a rape crisis center? They are the ones perpetuating this whole victimology in the first place!

  64. Hmmm? Yes it’s all a joke. They r real people who have been physically and emotionally mamed tryin to “get over it”.

    Working to get better

    Hahaha. That’s a joke right?

  65. I’m no longer certain you’re even talking to me. I’m not making jokes. I’m talking about the devaluation of the word rape.

  66. OK, for the people here trying to say that women shouldn’t be held somewhat responsible for getting taken advantage of while drunk and dressed scantily: OK, say you’re a dude (yeah, horrible, right?), and you’re out on the downtowns with your friends. You’re pretty faded, and feel like demonstrating you Manliness by going up to some 6’5″ burly guy and punching him in the face. He then proceeds to pummel you to the point that you are no longer a threat (which, as you punched him without provocation, you Are). Should you press charges against him, and cry about victim shaming if you get Blasted for causing the incident? as a man, you would be told that You Caused It by provocating the incident.

    Now, not all women who have been taken advantage of while drunk or tipsy are openly provoking it (at least not actively, as dressing like a hoochie-mamma could be seen as provocative in a passive sense), but the ones who actively hit on guys even though they are faded are provoking it. they Would bear some responsibility, as in the case of the faded guy punching some other dude in the face because he had a little too much “Liquid courage”.

    Harsh: Yes, but truth nontheless.


  67. “Unregulated street walkers have generally high incidence of STI (STD).”

    Regulation simply makes it more likely that sex workers will operate outside the law. So regulation is in effect the same as criminalisation.

    I’m interested n your source though. Lower rates of STIs among sex workers is not, as far as I have seen in the methodologically sound studies I’ve seen, an European phenomenon.

  68. @Gem, could you cite the source indicating lower rates of STDs in sex workers? That just seems to violate the reasonability test. It’s like saying people who eat out at different restaurants all the time are less likely to get food poisoning.

  69. […] his post, Relinquishing Your Rights and Accepting Victimhood, M3 […]

  70. Regulation simply makes it more likely that sex workers will operate outside the law. So regulation is in effect the same as criminalisation.

    That’s just not true. There’s a huge difference between arresting someone for practicing their craft, and simply demanding that they get a current health-check sticker on their license. Health regulation is an added cost on doing business, but if it’s not onerous and cheap clinics exist, it’s better than a criminal record.


    Men feel comfortable saying they are unable to control themselves around women who are enticing to them should, why not be castrated or chemically castrated like many child molesters are?

    Why disallow the woman to dress and act as she please?

    Why women’s responsibility? Why not have men wear “chastity” belts that prevent them from acting on the impulses they are so weak to abstain from?…

    Ie. cultures where sexuality and nudity is fully open and promote ritualized homosexuality, the intermingling of sexual acts of young children including prepubescent intercourse is found in tribes in the south pacific. Further research to provide extract details…

    …Because men can’t control themselves. I mean it’s biology right?

    Audacious, answer this simple question:

    Are humans animals?

  71. A fascinating video that MUST be watched by all when discussing this debate. Especially around the aspect of the male brain and how it works wrt to sex.

    As always, Karen is brilliant.


    Why there may never be a case against the alleged Rehtaeh Parsons rapists

  73. Rehtaeh Parsons is the classic case of regret and accusation to excuse a mistake.

    Funny how no consideration is given to the converse when men commit suicide from loneliness.

  74. […] behavior of other blacks, but everybody has the right to judge rednecks.  If you point out the FACT that obscenely drunk women are more likely to get raped (men being so barbaric and all), get […]

  75. […] The master and the slave. Related: Accepting victimhood. […]

  76. This is an excellent post. As a woman, I am grateful to the Men’s Rights community for being one of the few voices out there that treat women as intelligent, capable adults.

    I think (most) women know full well that men desire sex when they invite them over and will go even if they don’t plan to give in. Female flirtation is rarely straightforward, and we do love playing with men’s expectations. 🙂

  77. Awesome man, I HATED the bitches at college who would were tight clothes, get plastered drunk, and predictable have sex, and the next day claim they were ‘raped’ but go right back to the party again.

  78. Not only you. It was all the fault of those “campus rapists“, you know.

  79. […] I had originally been jotting down notes to write another addendum post to the last one i wrote. […]

  80. Feminists claim that having sex with an intoxicated woman is rape. And I’m not talking about a woman who’s passed out, or even someone one who’s conscious, but so hammered she can barely form words. According to feminists, if her judgment is impaired, having sex with her is rape. Today, I’d like to talk about a couple extensions of this logic that I’m not sure they’ve considered.

    *just because I know that at least a couple people are going to bring this up if I don’t mention this; nothing in this article applies to people whose drinks have been spiked. Obviously that’s a whole new category of crime.

    “Alcohol excuses cheating.”

    I don’t imagine that any sane person in a civilized society would make the argument that a married rape victim is guilt of cheating. That would be insane and heartless. Well, since feminists claim that sex-based double-standards are unfair artifacts of patriarchy, this same rule must apply to men, as well. That means that if a married business man goes to a conference, heads down to the hotel bar, has a bit too much scotch, then goes back to his room with a woman he just met? He’s not cheating on his wife, because that woman is raping him.

    “Child support: The Ultimate Artifact of Rape Culture.”

    I don’t imagine too many feminists would deny that there are tons of men out there who get drunk, have a one night stand, and wind up impregnating a woman. According to the “drunk rape” belief, these men were all rape victims. Which means that child support is tantamount to forcing a rape victim to pay a monthly fee to the one who raped them. Does that sound right to you?

    “The moral of the story”

    The moral of the story is this. Your judgment is impaired when you consume too much alcohol, but not when you decide to start drinking. When you do that, you are making a sober, conscious decision to put yourself in an altered state of mind. You are making a sober, conscious decision to ingest something which you know will lower your inhibitions and impede your judgment. Therefore, whatever decisions you make while in this state of mind are a result of you making that decision. If you’re of legal drinking age, it’s nobody else’s place to stop you from drinking (well, the bartender once you’ve had enough, but certainly not at the start), it’s nobody’s job to tell you what to do and what not to do; and by the same rule, if you tie one on, get a bit handsy, and you tell a man to take you to the parking lot, where you say nothing but “yes, don’t stop,” it’s not a man’s responsibility to stop. The fact that you regret it the next morning does not make it rape. It makes it a mistake, and a good sign that maybe you should stop drinking. It’s called personal responsibility. If you’re old enough to drink, you’re old enough to accept the consequences of your intoxication.

    In short, no means no, but yes means yes.

  81. From the wonderful JudgyBitch

    “Any man that allows himself to be sexually coerced, in the absence of serious, life-threatening harm (which most women would be hard-pressed to deliver) never loses sight of the fact that he made a call and it wasn’t a particularly great one. Agreeing to have sex (being coerced) even when you really don’t want to might be a bad decision, but it’s still his decision.

    Contrast that with women, who will make the exact same bad decision in the exact same scenario, and then look around for someone to blame. Both the man and the woman are at a party, both are approached by opposite sex partners, both receive passionate kisses and both are fondled. Both agree to sexual activity even though neither one is interested in that.

    The man wakes up and thinks “Well that was stupid. I’m not doing that again.”

    The woman wakes up and thinks, “Oh my god, I’ve been raped!”

    It comes down to agency. Do you make your own decisions or do you not?”


  82. M3, great to see you’re still kicking around. Hope life is busy for you in a good way? No more health concerns?

    I am actually kinda happy you commented on this post, as it somewhat relates to one I recently wrote, and I’d like to get your opinion.

  83. […] rape on his mind at all, but she imagines he might threaten her, and might hit her, and therefore lets him have it . He has not done any of those criminal things himself, she just imagines that he might. And under […]

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